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7NT-king ask 2/1 ACBL

#1 User is offline   dickiegera 

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Posted 2014-January-19, 21:22



HOW DO WE ASK FOR SPECIFIC KINGS NOW?

Over a weak 2 or 3 bid we play that 4 asks for keycards and the Queen where 4 is none, 4 is 1,4 1+Q,4NT is 2, and 5 2+Q.

If the weak bid is 3
We play that 4 is the special from of ace asking. 4 now shows 1 keycard.
WE picked this up from Mike Lawrence.

My question in this case is after 4 how do we ask for specific kings?

5 maybe, with 5NT showing King of diamonds. 5 would have showed King of spades.

Any opinions.
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#2 User is offline   kenrexford 

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Posted 2014-January-19, 21:56

Excellent treatment. I did a write up on an alternative asking structure using the same asking bid but different answers on my blog a while back. Www.cuebiddingatbridge.blogspot.com
the gist is that you can kick into specific kings with certain high range holdings and the same later after lesser answers. I will try to find it and update this post.
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#3 User is offline   Mbodell 

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Posted 2014-January-20, 00:47

Here is a quick way to think about it (which matches exactly the thoughts of your OP):

All keycard responses should be thought of as steps, not as fixed suits. That helps if you ever play kickback, or end up in a situation where an opponents interference changes the steps, or other places where you can ask for keycards in unusual situations.

Playing 1430 the first step is 1 or 4, the second step is 3 or 0, the third step is 2 (or 5) w/o the Q, the fourth step is 2 (or 5) w/ the Q, the 5th step is an even number of keycards and a useful void, etc.

Playing "Preempt keycard" the first step is 0, the next step is 1 w/o Q, the next step is 1 w/ Q, the next step is 2 w/o the Q, the next step is 2 w/ the Q.

When you hear an answer and want to continue over the answer then the steps are as follows:
1. First step asks about the Q if you don't already know it (so with trump in normal 1430 keycard, you bid 4nt and hear a 5 response showing 1 or 4. You now want to ask about the Q, you bid the next step 5).
2. Second step (if we don't know about the Q)/First step (if we do know about the Q) asks about specific K (and shows that we have all the keycards and the Q).

In response to 1 above you retreat to trump at the lowest level without the Q, with the Q you bid the cheapest specific K that you can (you can use NT to replace the asking suit to keep things lower).
In response to 2 above you show the cheapest K that you can (unless you already know you can bid a grand, in which case you can bid it - possibly showing an outside feature if you want to invite partner to choose a different strain - esp NT - for grand).

So again we are bidding a normal contract and we bid 4nt, partner bids 5 showing 1 or 4. We have the Q and now know we have all the key cards. We bid 5 the second step to show this and ask partner for his kings.

Over preempt key card it is all the same, except most of the answers tell about the Q so number 1 above is often not in play.

One last thing about the steps above is the asking steps don't include the trump suit (since we might be sad about the response we heard and want to sign off). The asking steps over a minor, especially in a preempt keycard situation, often also don't include NT, since often the keycard asker is interested in 6 of the minor, but if they find out that 6 of the minor is out, they may want to play 4nt instead of 5 minor - especially at matchpoints.

All of that means that over the 4 response showing 1 w/o the Q partner can ask for specific K (and generally show the presence of all the keycards and the Q) by bidding the first step available. 4nt is reserved as to play, so that is not an available step. 5 is to play, so that is not an available step. 5 is the first available step and that should promise all the keycards and the Q since it is forcing to the 6 level and investigating the 7 level. When West bids that, East can bid 5nt to show no K no K but the K. Over 5nt it is easy for W to bid 7nt.
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#4 User is offline   TWO4BRIDGE 

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Posted 2014-January-20, 08:40

You have it right... Below is a shorter version of Mbodell's post .
After 4S = 1/4 keys, then:
??
.. 4NT = Q-ask ( assuming not "to play " )
.. 5C = to play
.. 5D = kickback for Kings
Replies to 5D:
...... - 5H = K
...... - 5S = K; denies K
...... - 5NT = K; denies Major K ( NT shows the feature of the "asking suit", )
...... - 6C = no outside K
Don Stenmark
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"imo by far in bridge the least understood concept is how to bid over a jump-shift
( 1M-1NT!-3m-?? )." ....Justin Lall

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#5 User is offline   Zelandakh 

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Posted 2014-January-20, 10:05

What Mobodell wrote, except that not everyone will reserve 4NT as a place to play. If you do not then 4NT is the king ask rather than 5. There are pros and cons to both approaches with perhaps 4NT to play being more useful at MPs and as an ask better at IMPs.

To Don, dickie is playing the modified key card responses for preemptive openings - 0, 1-q, 1+q, 2-q, 2+q - so no need for a queen ask after a 1-q response. Therefore 4NT is either to play or a king ask. In the latter case 5 would be a Specific Suit Ask (SSA).
(-: Zel :-)
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