[humilities]

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IMPs - regional knockouts - both sides vul.

Thus far all bids are natural. Rightly or wrongly I gave my partner a chance to choose clubs - but it seems to have worked out with a likely xx heart preference.

Now I want to cue bid 4♠ or 5♣ looking for a ♦ cue bid, but I have a big question: is there any chance either bid could possibly be misconstrued as to play?

Thanks in advance for your advice.

[helene_t]

4♠ certainly can't be misunderstood and that's what I would bid. Due to the lead-directing double partner's won't die ♦K now so if he bids 5♦ it must be the ace.

[mfa1010]

5♠ exclusion.

[hautbois]

I'm not concerned partner may think 4♠ is to play. I'm worried he'll think I have the A. I know the scoring is imps, but for as frequently as these auctions come up I want treatments that will find NT at MPs when it's right. I think bidding 4♠ here with an agreement it could be a void gives up the ability for partner to correct to NT with a protected K♦ and K♠.

Partner will show the A♦ over a call of 5♣, so I do not cuebid my void.

[ArtK78]

 hautbois, on 2014-January-06, 15:01, said:

I'm not concerned partner may think 4♠ is to play. I'm worried he'll think I have the A. I know the scoring is imps, but for as frequently as these auctions come up I want treatments that will find NT at MPs when it's right. I think bidding 4♠ here with an agreement it could be a void gives up the ability for partner to correct to NT with a protected K♦ and K♠.

Partner will show the A♦ over a call of 5♣, so I do not cuebid my void.

With all due respect, even thinking about the possibility of playing this hand in notrump (with the possible exception of 7NT) means that you are not approaching this problem correctly.

I look at this hand with the idea that I have 12 tricks in hand. So the idea that we might want to play in NT if partner has the pointed suit kings just makes no sense to me. That gives the opps the possibility of leading to one ace and leading through partner's king in the other pointed suit, resulting in down 4 or more when we are cold for 12 tricks in the rounded suits.

[hautbois]

 ArtK78, on 2014-January-06, 15:38, said:

With all due respect, even thinking about the possibility of playing this hand in notrump (with the possible exception of 7NT) means that you are not approaching this problem correctly.

I look at this hand with the idea that I have 12 tricks in hand. So the idea that we might want to play in NT if partner has the pointed suit kings just makes no sense to me.That gives the opps two cashing tricks.

I think that's my point. Why am I announcing a spade control to a partner who should not use that information? I should only be bidding 4♠ if I do want partner to use that information to correct to NT if he can protect the diamond lead. Partner with both pointed kings may think I have the A♠, correct to NT at MPs and go down.

We're not going to miss the 7 level if I bypass cuebidding 4♠. The only card I care about I can still ask for at this point is the A♦ and I'm confident partner will show it over 5♣ if he has it. I rather like mfa1010's solution of bidding exclusion as well.

[CSGibson]

 hautbois, on 2014-January-06, 15:48, said:

I think that's my point. Why am I announcing a spade control to a partner who should not use that information? I should only be bidding 4♠ if I do want partner to use that information to correct to NT if he can protect the diamond lead. Partner with both pointed kings may think I have the A♠, correct to NT at MPs and go down.

We're not going to miss the 7 level if I bypass cuebidding 4♠. The only card I care about I can still ask for at this point is the A♦ and I'm confident partner will show it over 5♣ if he has it. I rather like mfa1010's solution of bidding exclusion as well.

I'm not convinced - I might be inclined to bid 5♦ as last train showing a spade control, not as a diamond control if I believed that 5♣ denied a spade control.

[ahydra]

Should have opened 4NT

I think exclusion blackwood, if you have it in your armoury, is the best option now. Failing that 4S, hopefully partner will realise hearts are trumps...

ahydra

[nige1]

 humilities, on 2014-January-06, 06:21, said:

IMPs - regional knockouts - both sides vul.
Thus far all bids are natural. Rightly or wrongly I gave my partner a chance to choose clubs - but it seems to have worked out with a likely xx heart preference.
Now I want to cue bid 4♠ or 5♣ looking for a ♦ cue bid, but I have a big question: is there any chance either bid could possibly be misconstrued as to play?

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IMO 6♥ = 10, 4N = 9, 4♠ = 7. I feel that Humilities was right to suggest ♣ as an alternative to ♥ (in case partner has ♣Jx(x) and a singleton or void in ♥, say). I don't think you should torture partner with 5♣ or 4♠, because some pairs have a rule that such bids are constructive but partner can pass. Partner seems to have a misfit and even if he has ♦A, 6♥ may be enough.

[hautbois]

 CSGibson, on 2014-January-06, 17:29, said:

I'm not convinced - I might be inclined to bid 5♦ as last train showing a spade control, not as a diamond control if I believed that 5♣ denied a spade control.

I do not use last train above game level, but I see how that could be a benefit. 4♦ would have been last train.

I'm not sure what I'd do with x AKQ8xxx - AKQT9, but whatever the agreements, they should handle that hand as well.

I think 5♦ would serve that hand, but the reasoning is starting to look very tortured. I can't still be inviting cuebid responses that would commit me to the 6-level if I didn't want to be there regardless of which one partner has. Bypassing 4♠ means I won't be interested in hearing about the K, only the A.

[SteveMoe]

...would try a pedestrian 6♣ here (pattern bid, alternative place to play). This might tempt partner to bid 6♦ with the Ace on the way to 6♥. In any event, partner will expect 7-5 or 6-6 and make a good decision for us.

[neilkaz]

 SteveMoe, on 2014-January-06, 19:35, said:

...would try a pedestrian 6♣ here (pattern bid, alternative place to play). This might tempt partner to bid 6♦ with the Ace on the way to 6♥. In any event, partner will expect 7-5 or 6-6 and make a good decision for us.

If I bid 6♣ after bidding 2♥and then 3♣and then 4♣ how many ♥ and how many ♣ will PD think that I have? Surely not 7-5 and I fear I may play 6♣ when I belong in 6♥.

[rmnka447]

Part has heard you bid 2 suits and taken a preference to ♥. So I think it's safe to say that partner has at least 1 ♥ and maybe even longer ♥s than ♣s.

If absolutely you're sure partner would take 5 ♠ as exclusion RKCB/Blackwood, you might want to use that. But if there's any doubt about how such a bid would be interpreted, then the best course is to simply bid what you think you can make. I think 6 ♥ stands out at this point.

[helene_t]

 ahydra, on 2014-January-06, 17:51, said:

Should have opened 4NT

Yes. No smiley needed!