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1H:1N, 3C:3H What now?

#1 User is offline   MickyB 

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Posted 2013-October-09, 08:05

1H:1N
3C:3H

What shape(s) would you expect for 3S or 3N now from opener?
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#2 User is offline   FrancesHinden 

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Posted 2013-October-09, 11:17

I think 3H should show something positive in hearts, usually honour-x. With nothing in hearts, responder bids 3D/3S/3NT
Opener's 3S shows approximately 3514 (could be 3604); with a hand that invented the 3C bid, if that is possible in the system, opener would bid 4H over 3H.
3NT is usually 2524. With a 1534 opener decided before bidding 3C what he was going to bid over 3H. With a low singleton spade perhaps he wouldn't bid 3C without huge extra values. 3NT could have a singleton SA, say.
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#3 User is offline   nigel_k 

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Posted 2013-October-09, 14:24

I think what Frances said is standard, but IMO it's more effective to just assume responder has the other minor. His cards have to be somewhere. This means that 3♠ is fourth suit forcing and can be used on something like xx AKxxx Ax AKJx. As opener with Axx AKxxx x AKJx I would just bid 3NT.
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#4 User is offline   MickyB 

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Posted 2013-October-09, 15:34

Yup, there was disagreement about which way round 3S and 3N should be - is 3S natural or 4th suit? Edit: By 'should', I don't mean theoretically, as I doubt there's much in it.

1534 bidding 4D sounds fine to me, if responder wants to play 3N opposite that I guess he just has to bid it himself.
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#5 User is offline   000ffj 

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Posted 2013-October-11, 02:43

 MickyB, on 2013-October-09, 08:05, said:

1H:1N
3C:3H

What shape(s) would you expect for 3S or 3N now from opener?

I think that you must define how many cards of club for your 3c,3cc?4cc?or 5cc?
I play Meckstroth'2n after forcing 1nt,
so 1、1M-1N-2N=19+64 suiters or M6+19p+ single suiter。
2、1M-1N-3C=55suiters.
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#6 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2013-October-12, 08:53

I don't play 4sf by opener, but common logic seems to dictate that 3NT is a spade stopper, and 3♠ a last train bid.
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#7 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2013-October-13, 15:35

This greatly depends on which side of the pond you are.
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#8 User is offline   TWO4BRIDGE 

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Posted 2013-October-14, 06:50

What were the hands ?
Don Stenmark
TWOferBRIDGE
"imo by far in bridge the least understood concept is how to bid over a jump-shift
( 1M-1NT!-3m-?? )." ....Justin Lall

" Did someone mention relays? " .... Zelandakh

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#9 User is offline   rogerclee 

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Posted 2013-October-14, 15:20

FWIW I was just talking about this auction with jlall and I think there is a good argument for switching the 3D and 3H responses on this auction.
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#10 User is offline   Zelandakh 

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Posted 2013-October-22, 07:17

 rogerclee, on 2013-October-14, 15:20, said:

FWIW I was just talking about this auction with jlall and I think there is a good argument for switching the 3D and 3H responses on this auction.

Do you know what has kept Justin away from BBF for the last weeks Roger? If you speak with him again, please tell him that he is missed.
(-: Zel :-)
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#11 User is offline   DJNeill 

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Posted 2013-October-22, 08:16

Depends which bible you use (Kokish or Robinson). (http://www.bridgewithdan.com/systems)

If no agreement playing with a random BBO partner, 3H is definitely 3 cards so 3S should be cue and 3N should be suggesting a contract.

If no agreement playing with a good partner but no agreements, I think 3N should be a hedge that allows partner to get out in case he was being tricky with a doubleton heart, and I would not bid 3S ever. This is an odd way to play I agree but this is one of those weird situations where everybody has their own funny way to play - the better partner is the more dangerous.
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