[MrAce]

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IMP pairs, 1♠ being forcing 1 round what would you bid ? I believe i made a very bad bid w/o thinking much.

New pd, 1NT means what you think it logically means w/o a discussion. Pd is our very own Diana Eva from forums.

[Winstonm]

I see no particular reason to bid again so I pass.

[MrAce]

Winstonm, on 2013-July-14, 06:59, said:

I see no particular reason to bid again so I pass.

Ok, my bad probably, i will add pass in poll options. I forgot this is BBF.

[Cyberyeti]

For us, 1N is probably 12-14 with 1-2 spades, but our overcalls are sounder than most, particularly the non space consuming 1♦ over 1♣. x, KJx, AKxxx, Qxxx would be reasonably normal for us. 3N is the most probable game if there is one, I'd probably bid 2N, partner may well contribute 3♠ possibly after 3m with Qx.

[benlessard]

I could have 8 pts 4S and something wasted in club and still advance to 1S. So pass is clearly not an option for me. I dont see anything wrong with 2C (wich is not GF by the way)

[JLOGIC]

Cyberyeti, on 2013-July-14, 08:49, said:

For us, 1N is probably 12-14 with 1-2 spades, but our overcalls are sounder than most, particularly the non space consuming 1♦ over 1♣. x, KJx, AKxxx, Qxxx would be reasonably normal for us. 3N is the most probable game if there is one, I'd probably bid 2N, partner may well contribute 3♠ possibly after 3m with Qx.

If 1S is forcing then why is 1N 12-14? Are you saying you would not overcall a 5 card suit and less than 12, or just that you'd rebid 2D on a 5 card suit or something?

FWIW this is why NF 1S bids are helpful imo, partner can limit his hand by passing 1S. I can't really imagine not overcalling xx xxx KQTxx Axx or not bidding 1S over 1D with AKxxx xxx xx xxx so the ranges are unmanageably wide if everyone has to keep bidding.

I would bid 2C then 2S I guess playing this system.

[Cyberyeti]

JLOGIC, on 2013-July-14, 11:38, said:

If 1S is forcing then why is 1N 12-14? Are you saying you would not overcall a 5 card suit and less than 12, or just that you'd rebid 2D on a 5 card suit or something?

FWIW this is why NF 1S bids are helpful imo, partner can limit his hand by passing 1S. I can't really imagine not overcalling xx xxx KQTxx Axx or not bidding 1S over 1D with AKxxx xxx xx xxx so the ranges are unmanageably wide if everyone has to keep bidding.

I would bid 2C then 2S I guess playing this system.

We jump overcall with crap (sometimes, particularly over a 2 card club with 5 or on odd occasions 4 card suits), your first hand is the problem hand for us, I might overcall 1♠ over 1♣ with the pointies reversed but am nowhere close to 1♦, so it's pass or 2♦ and I'm a bit good/shapeless for 2♦.

We respond to overcalls as if they were opened except for the added flexibility given by the cue bid.

If we have overcalled at the 1 level with <12, we don't rebid in NT (unless we decide it's worth an upgrade), so we consider that before making the overcall.

[mikeh]

I'd bid 3♠, invitational.

[aguahombre]

mikeh, on 2013-July-14, 12:51, said:

I'd bid 3♠, invitational.

I would, too. But even though I would have bid 1S the first time as did the OP, I don't believe it should be forcing upon a minimum overcall. 2S should be forcing/1D.

Anyway, we are at the same place. The OP system seems to assume 1♦ shows opening bid strength, so 3♠ invitation at this point seems to mean the same thing as if overcaller opened 1♦ and rebid 1NT.

If you really are going to have those agreements about the 1D overcall and a 1-level forcing advance, you might as well go all the way with it. NMF, 1NT rebid might have three spades, etc....although this hand would still rebid 3S.

[mfa1010]

2♣. Easy if it is a cuebid. And I think it should be. But it worries me that it is undisscussed in my partnership. But we play 1♠ as NF but still it is wide-ranging.

I have heard the interesting suggestion that (1♣)-1♦-(p)-1♠,(p)-2♣ should show a crappy overcall with other bids (1N, 2♦...) being full strength. Or rather, two-way, either crappy or strong without a direction.

I think that idea has a lot going for it. A crappy overcall tends strongly to be only 5, and advancer should be in a decent position to bid over such a 2♣ bid.

With such a system advancer has a gameforce over 1N or very close to.

[diana_eva]

FWIW I didn't think 1!S was forcing So I assumed 1NT would be ongoing there, not just a forced call.

[nige1]

MrAce, on 2013-July-14, 06:46, said:

IMP pairs, 1♠ being forcing 1 round what would you bid ? I believe i made a very bad bid w/o thinking much.

New pd, 1NT means what you think it logically means w/o a discussion. Pd is our very own Diana Eva from forums.

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IMO 2N = 10, 3N = 9, 3♠ = 8, 2♣ = 7, 2♠ = 6, Pass = 5, 4♠ = 4.
My cards, especially ♦Q, seem to be worth more in notump

[Zelandakh]

As someone who has always played new suits forcing after an overcall, I think 1NT shows about 9-12 here. If you have overcalled on less than 9 then you are certain to have a good enough suit to rebid 2♦ happily.

[mfa1010]

Zelandakh, on 2013-July-15, 06:33, said:

If you have overcalled on less than 9 then you are certain to have a good enough suit to rebid 2♦ happily.

I will never be happy about rebidding a 5 card suit. With a 6 card suit and less than 9 the first bid would have been 2♦, not 1♦.

[MrAce]

mfa1010, on 2013-July-14, 14:04, said:

With such a system advancer has a gameforce over 1N or very close to.

Help me to understand this part please. Which part of 1♠ being forcing, thus 1NT is forced (or any other bid) makes this hand a gf hand while not when 1♠ is nf ?

Zelandakh, on 2013-July-15, 06:33, said:

As someone who has always played new suits forcing after an overcall, I think 1NT shows about 9-12 here.

This is what i thought also, when i bid 3♠. But i am ready to hear opinions and ready to be convinced otherwise if pd can not have 9-10 balanced, when 1♠ is F1 . Without you i was feeling very lonely about my same range expectation But i am still not feeling satisfied with my 3♠ bid for some reason.

[gnasher]

MrAce, on 2013-July-15, 09:12, said:

Help me to understand this part please. Which part of 1♠ being forcing, thus 1NT is forced (or any other bid) makes this hand a gf hand while not when 1♠ is nf ?

He was talking about the method where

1♣ 1♦ pass 1♠
2♣

shows a bad hand, and any other rebid by the overcaller shows something better.

I think that's a really good idea, btw.

[MrAce]

gnasher, on 2013-July-15, 09:27, said:

He was talking about the method where

1♣ 1♦ pass 1♠
2♣

shows a bad hand, and any other rebid by the overcaller shows something better.

I think that's a really good idea, btw.

Oh my bad then, i totally understood something else. And yes it is a very good method.

[Winstonm]

MrAce, on 2013-July-14, 07:10, said:

Ok, my bad probably, i will add pass in poll options. I forgot this is BBF.

If forced to bid again by system, I can't imagine a more negative bid in this sequence than 1NT. This sounds like xx, xxx, KJ10xx, Kxx on a good day. Unless the overcall system has really high requirements for 1D over 1C, I can't imagine that my balanced 12-count (balanced now that a 5-1 diamonds fit is known) will produce game, and I see no reason to disturb NT.

Then, again, I've never played this 1S bid as forcing and don't see the value of that treatment. Trying to emulate opening bidding systems in overcall structures is, IMO, a losing proposition.

[gszes]

This amount of power is normally more than sufficient to force to
game but there are enough flaws where I prefer to make a NF
3s call here asking p to have something other than a regular
minimum overcall to go to game.

This bid also lets p know where I live and will allow them to make a
better decision on how to proceed.

[Winstonm]

gszes, on 2013-July-15, 11:41, said:

This amount of power is normally more than sufficient to force to
game but there are enough flaws where I prefer to make a NF
3s call here asking p to have something other than a regular
minimum overcall to go to game.

This bid also lets p know where I live and will allow them to make a
better decision on how to proceed.

Question: Do you pass over 1C with x, xxx, AK10xx, Jxxx or overcall 1D?

I'm just trying to figure out why everyone is so aggressive with the spade hand after partner shows no encouragement.