[Cascade]

♠ AKQxxx
♥ AKxx
♦ Kx
♣ J

Pass (1♠) ?

[sfi]

Cascade, on 2013-March-15, 22:42, said:

♠ AKQxxx
♥ AKxx
♦ Kx
♣ J

Pass (1♠) ?

Humour me with vulnerability and scoring, and do we know whether the opponents are playing 5 card majors?

That being said, I'm likely to double with the aim of bidding NT next if they're not vul. and pass if they are. I'm also more likely to bid at IMPs.

[Cascade]

sfi, on 2013-March-16, 00:36, said:

Humour me with vulnerability and scoring, and do we know whether the opponents are playing 5 card majors?

That being said, I'm likely to double with the aim of bidding NT next if they're not vul. and pass if they are. I'm also more likely to bid at IMPs.

Good questions. It came up in a practice session with some youth players. I was sitting in and held these cards and had no idea what to do. There wasn't really any form of scoring giving it was just a practice session. The opponents were playing 4-card majors but in a style where four cards were only possible in a 4=3=3=3 hand with 15-19 hcp. I cannot recall the vulnerability but I was sitting east and west was the dealer so that makes it board 4 (with all vul) or board 8 (with nil vul) since I only got 10 boards out for the practice.

[PetteriLem]

I pass. If the auction goes all pass, I am confident 1♠ wont make. Should 1NT come back I double it. Perhaps I shouldnt, because 1NTX could make or I have to find a bid over 2♣ from partner. 1♠-p-1NT-p; 2♣/♦ will be annoying and I dont know what to do. 2♠ maybe, double - I could be 2-suited or real take-out of ♣ or pass and miss 4♥ at worse. 1♠-p-1NT-p; 2♥ is easy to pass. If the oppponents go higher, I just wait and double. Anyway pass is my chouce.
I think double gets me into trouble. Often partner has the same problem as above (trap pass and double), but this time I have distorted my distribution. Partner will insist clubs and I hate to correct him. Of course double has a big upside and that is 4♥. I dont think I will ever find it, if I pass first.

[sfi]

Cascade, on 2013-March-16, 02:38, said:

Good questions. It came up in a practice session with some youth players. I was sitting in and held these cards and had no idea what to do. There wasn't really any form of scoring giving it was just a practice session. The opponents were playing 4-card majors but in a style where four cards were only possible in a 4=3=3=3 hand with 15-19 hcp. I cannot recall the vulnerability but I was sitting east and west was the dealer so that makes it board 4 (with all vul) or board 8 (with nil vul) since I only got 10 boards out for the practice.

The question about system was mostly me stalling, since even with 4 card majors they're likely to have 5 more often than not. The vulnerability seems a much more relevant question. My thinking is that it is really between pass and treating it as a strong balanced hand. Let's presume IMPs. If they're vulnerable I'm happy to play for 100's in undertricks. However, if not then the chance for game seems too high to settle for a small plus defending (give partner 4 hearts and we're well on our way to a game bonus), so the opportunity cost of passing looks awfully high.

How much trouble can I get into by doubling? Well, partner can bid a minor at which point I bid NT. If the minor is diamonds, then no issues since we basically have what we promised. If clubs, I owe partner a trump and we might get overboard. However, that's probably not such an issue if we wind up in a part-score and partner isn't going to insist on game in clubs without lots of clubs. In that case we might even get away with it (x xx Jxxx KQTxxx isn't the worst game ever). The upside is unearthing a heart fit, which pretty much has to be done now.

Let's assume nobody vul and pick some numbers kind of at random. Our upside is +420 vs. +100 (8 imps for bidding). Our downside is -100 vs. +100 (-5 imps for bidding). It feels like good enough odds to double here.

If all vul and assuming the same set of results, we're looking at +9 to -9, so the case for bidding is less. So I'm sticking with my initial impressions above. Similarly, at matchpoints the frequency of everyone going down in a partscore seems high enough that I would be very likely to try for +200 if they're vul. At nil vul. I would still bid. You know how rarely we play matchpoints here though, so maybe someone else has a better take on that.

[JLOGIC]

Pass. Then over 1S p 1N p 2C, double. When partner bids 2D, jump to 3H to show a VERY strong 6-4. That is probably an overbid though, go low with 2H to show a good 6-4. A direct jump to 3H over 2C would be a strong 6-5.

[JLOGIC]

But yeah seriously...pass. When you have a strong hand with 6 of their suit always just start with pass.

[PhilKing]

JLOGIC, on 2013-March-16, 10:28, said:

Pass. Then over 1S p 1N p 2C, double. When partner bids 2D, jump to 3H to show a VERY strong 6-4. That is probably an overbid though, go low with 2H to show a good 6-4. A direct jump to 3H over 2C would be a strong 6-5.

This made me happy, even though you didn't mean it.