[Kungsgeten]

Hi!

Me and a friend has been thinking about playing a forcing club system. At first we talked about Swedish club, but it seems pretty hard to learn and I would like to get started quickly. Then I read about AUC, which seems pretty nice. I like the fact that 2C shows 6+, 1D shows 4+ and 2D+ can be used for whatever. I personally also like 12-14 NT.

It would be nice to hear from players of the system (is there any?). What are your experiences? What's good and what's ugly? A concern of mine is how much you gain from 11-18 openings compared to standard 11+ openings.

I couldn't find in the system notes (maybe didn't read thoroughly) if 1M-1NT is forcing. I use to play it as non-forcing (but opener only passes with a small balanced hand). In AUC it says that 1NT shouldn't be opened with a 5 card major. Another concern is 15-17NT with 5 card major. If the bidding goes 1M-1NT, what to do? Pass with 12-14 and raise with 15-17?

[gwnn]

You can always use 2C as some sort of gazzilli, for example the Icelandic version 'Hexan':
2C can be 13+ balanced or 11-15 with 4+ clubs or 16+ unbalanced. It works OK except that sometimes you miss clubs.

[Zelandakh]

I recommend you read the notes at Dan's site. A couple of quotes you might find helpful for your specific points:-

1M - 1NT

Quote

6 The Major-Suit Openings

There's not much to be said here. These openings are limited to about
11-18 points, with at least 5 cards in the suit opened, with the remote
possibility of a longer club suit. Use whatever methods you find most
comfortable, except that jump-shift rebids and reverses aren't forcing.
(Responder may have as few as 6 HCP and opener at most 18. Responder must
be allowed to pass with a misfit.) Be a little freer with preemptive
raises, especially with some values, when you can judge that opener can't
have enough for game.

Again, there's a lot to be said for using ROMEX methods here. They have
been designed with a very similar 1M opening in mind. My preferences run
more to Lawrence and Bergen, but I'm not convinced one way or the other.

Faced with creating a standard I will describe my preferences. The 1NT
response may be passed with 11-13 points and 5332 or 5422 distribution;
otherwise opener may rebid a 6-card suit, a 4-card heart suit, or a 3-card
minor. Rebidding 2S over 1NT shows 14+ points, usually more. Responder
strains to make a second bid with 8 points or more.

1NT opening

Quote

Opener has a good 11 to any 14 HCP. Opener will hardly ever have a
5-card major; if one is held, it will be no better than J9xxx and the
doubleton will be strong. If the hand is 5422, there will be honors in
both doubletons.

[Kungsgeten]

Thank you both. I think I read that section in the notes, but forgot it. It is kinda hard to find stuff in the notes.

I'm thinking about using Häxan/Gazzili, if partner accepts, since I play it with another partner (but in a natural 4444-system with 15-17 NT). Perhaps something like:

1M-1NT; "Semi-forcing"
Pass - 12-14 balanced
2C - Natural or 15-17 bal or 16-18 unbal
2NT - ???
Others - Natural

1M-1NT; 2C -
2D - 8+ any
2M - To play, 2 card support
Other - Less than 8 hcp, 0-1 card support

1M-1NT; 2C - 2D;
2M - 5+ hearts, 4+ clubs, 11-15 hcp
2NT - 15-17 bal that would've passed 1NT-2NT playing standard
3NT - 15-17 bal that would've accepted the INV in 1NT-2NT playing standard
Other - Natural, 16-18 unbal

The downside here seems to be missing a 5-3 heart fit after 1S-1NT; 2C-2D; when opener is 5-3-(32).

[WGF_Flame]

Kungsgeten, on 2013-February-05, 04:15, said:

Thank you both. I think I read that section in the notes, but forgot it. It is kinda hard to find stuff in the notes.

I'm thinking about using Häxan/Gazzili, if partner accepts, since I play it with another partner (but in a natural 4444-system with 15-17 NT). Perhaps something like:

1M-1NT; "Semi-forcing"
Pass - 12-14 balanced
2C - Natural or 15-17 bal or 16-18 unbal
2NT - ???
Others - Natural

1M-1NT; 2C -
2D - 8+ any
2M - To play, 2 card support
Other - Less than 8 hcp, 0-1 card support

1M-1NT; 2C - 2D;
2M - 5+ hearts, 4+ clubs, 11-15 hcp
2NT - 15-17 bal that would've passed 1NT-2NT playing standard
3NT - 15-17 bal that would've accepted the INV in 1NT-2NT playing standard
Other - Natural, 16-18 unbal

The downside here seems to be missing a 5-3 heart fit after 1S-1NT; 2C-2D; when opener is 5-3-(32).

i dont have much experience with gazzili, i think i heard there are solutions for the 5-3 heart fit, and i think of one that could be playable which is
to switch between the 2H and 2NT responses by opener.
so after 1S-1NT-2C-2D-2H = balance hand, 2S now and 2NT will let you handle the hands with and without 5H, maybe:
2NT = minimum no 5H,
2S = 5H any strength or any GF
opener bid 2NT now with min and no 3H, bid 3NT with max and no 3H, bid 3H with min and 3H, bid 3m with max and 3H
1S-2NT-2c-2d-2nt = 5S-4H 16-18

dont know if this is good but it seems to me to it can work fine.

This post has been edited by WGF_Flame: 2013-February-05, 04:58

[Kungsgeten]

Good idea! Seems better.

[Siegmund]

Quote

It would be nice to hear from players of the system (is there any?).

Yes, kind of. I've just started playing it this winter, with a partner who wanted to try Polish Club and wanted to try Weak NT, and this way we kill two birds with one stone. I had more extensive experience in the mid-90s with other Polish variations.

Quote

What are your experiences? What's good and what's ugly? A concern of mine is how much you gain from 11-18 openings compared to standard 11+ openings.

At the time AUC was new, the gains were in part from opening 11-18 when everyone else opened 13-22. I find there is very little difference between 11-18 and standard. Because many of 19+ auctions can be awkward, perhaps it is fair to say that the 18-point cutoff was chosen to make the 1M range as wide as it could comfortably be, to keep the strong auctions fairly rare.

I very much like AUC's 2C opening. Most the time I like the weak NT -- however, I really wish I could open more balanced 11s. I find an 11-14 notrump including 4-card majors too much to handle so reluctantly play 12-14 in AUC. (Playing Polish I opened all balanced 11s with 1C or 1D.) Playing other Polish variations where 1D was 4441 or 5+, I felt I gained more over 1D, especially in competion, than I lost by opening the 4342s with 1C.

AUC requires the 1D opening on both 4-5 and 5-4, which is awkward on the first round, but does a very good job of separating the two meanings on the second round. (I am willing to put up with opening 1D on 4-5 in AUC because of that; playing SA or 2/1 I hate it.) Similarly, many of the other custom jump shift rebids come in handy -- allowing you to cope with at least half of the Bridge World Hands of Death for instance.

Quote

I couldn't find in the system notes (maybe didn't read thoroughly) if 1M-1NT is forcing.

It can be what you want it to be. I, however, am never opening 1NT with a 5-card major, and passing 1M-1NT with my 5332 11-13s.

The system notes do specify 2/1 not game forcing (and jump shifts by opener after 1D/H/S not forcing(!). I have a feeling many people find this too uncomfortable, and simply substitute their whole 1M structure into AUC.