Help
Just taught a class of 2nd year improvers on the topic of take-out doubles.
Started off by covering the three types of hand that would start with a take-out double of 1 of a suit. I.e.
1) 3 suited hand sort in opponent's suit
2) Strong balanced hand with 18+ HCP
3) Hand that might miss game if it starts with a simple overcall.
Students really struggled with this.
Then went on to cover responses to a take-out double.
Simple response = 0-7 HCP, usually 4+ cards
Jump response = 8-11 HCP, 4+ cards in major, 5+ cards in a minor (usually)
1NT response = 6-9 HCP, stopper in their suit
Cue bid = 12+ HCP, asking for more information.
Students didn't get this at all.
Did I pitch my lesson too hard for them? This was the first time I took this class.
Page 1 of 1
- You cannot start a new topic
Add Reply
Improvers class on take out doubles
MultiQuote
#2
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 2,871
- Joined: 2007-April-22
- Location:Santa Clara, CA
Posted 2013-January-31, 20:12
How much time did you have? I think a lot of these things are understandable for people (myself and others I teach) only when you explain why bids have these meanings. And to do that you need to consider all the other hand types you have and what you do for that. So I don't know if you did, or had time, but I think I'd want to explain/outline that to a first approximation:
1. With a decent hand (say 8-17) and a single suit different than opponents you can make a non-forcing overcall that suit.
2. With a bad hand that has a long suit, you can preempt by jumping in a suit.
3. With a two suited hand with both suits different than opponents you can show the two suits through either U2nt when they are the two lowest or through Michael's when they are the 2 majors or the major and one of the minors.
4. With a two suited hand including the opponent's suit you can overcall the other suit if the hand is good enough, or pass if too weak.
5. With a flat hand or 15-18 with stopper in opponent's suit, you bid 1nt.
6. With a flat hand with <15, you pass.
So the major things that you can't show with the above are:
1. A flat hand that is 18+
2. A hand that has one long suit that is the opponents suit.
3. A flat 15-18 with no stopper in the opponent's suit.
4. A three suited hand short in the opponents suit that has some decent values (say 10+).
5. A three suited hand short in the opponents suit that is weak.
(maybe the sharp eyed ask about 3-suited hand where one of them are the opponents suit and/or how you show clubs+spades over 1diamond, but lets ignore those for now and let people guess the best from the above)
Then of those, we assign a number of them to the X. Using the same list as above:
1. With the flat 18+ you X and then bid nt next turn to at the same level to show the 18-20 point hand, jump in nt to show 21-22, and with 23+ cue opponents suit or react to partner.
2. This is quite uncommon. If X meant penalty we'd use it here, but since it is so uncommon we have invented other meanings for X, so you pass here. If partner is short they may X for us and then we may be able to sit (I.e., pass) if that is what is right (so we don't necessarily completely lose the ability to X for penalty).
3. You make your best lie. Maybe it is to X, maybe it is to bid 1nt without a stopper, maybe it is to overcall a suit, maybe it is to pass.
4. Here is the most common hand type for the X. You are telling partner that you have multiple places to play (usually all 3 other suits), and especially are looking for the 4-4 major fit. When partner responds you'll know if you should pass or invite based on the points they are showing.
5. Here, like with the flat hands, you might just be outgunned and pass is the right call.
For true beginners all of the above is too much information. But for those with a bit of experience, being able to cover what all the other bids mean (even if it is at this high level missing some of the details, exceptions, and nuances), and thus why the take out X is what it is, I think helps make it seem more logical.
Then when you cover the responses if people sort of get that the logic is about finding ~25/26 hcp games with 4-4 or 4-5 or 3-5 major fits or in nt with the opponent's suit stopped, and about finding the best strain for partscores when the game is out of the picture the responses make more sense too.
1. With a decent hand (say 8-17) and a single suit different than opponents you can make a non-forcing overcall that suit.
2. With a bad hand that has a long suit, you can preempt by jumping in a suit.
3. With a two suited hand with both suits different than opponents you can show the two suits through either U2nt when they are the two lowest or through Michael's when they are the 2 majors or the major and one of the minors.
4. With a two suited hand including the opponent's suit you can overcall the other suit if the hand is good enough, or pass if too weak.
5. With a flat hand or 15-18 with stopper in opponent's suit, you bid 1nt.
6. With a flat hand with <15, you pass.
So the major things that you can't show with the above are:
1. A flat hand that is 18+
2. A hand that has one long suit that is the opponents suit.
3. A flat 15-18 with no stopper in the opponent's suit.
4. A three suited hand short in the opponents suit that has some decent values (say 10+).
5. A three suited hand short in the opponents suit that is weak.
(maybe the sharp eyed ask about 3-suited hand where one of them are the opponents suit and/or how you show clubs+spades over 1diamond, but lets ignore those for now and let people guess the best from the above)
Then of those, we assign a number of them to the X. Using the same list as above:
1. With the flat 18+ you X and then bid nt next turn to at the same level to show the 18-20 point hand, jump in nt to show 21-22, and with 23+ cue opponents suit or react to partner.
2. This is quite uncommon. If X meant penalty we'd use it here, but since it is so uncommon we have invented other meanings for X, so you pass here. If partner is short they may X for us and then we may be able to sit (I.e., pass) if that is what is right (so we don't necessarily completely lose the ability to X for penalty).
3. You make your best lie. Maybe it is to X, maybe it is to bid 1nt without a stopper, maybe it is to overcall a suit, maybe it is to pass.
4. Here is the most common hand type for the X. You are telling partner that you have multiple places to play (usually all 3 other suits), and especially are looking for the 4-4 major fit. When partner responds you'll know if you should pass or invite based on the points they are showing.
5. Here, like with the flat hands, you might just be outgunned and pass is the right call.
For true beginners all of the above is too much information. But for those with a bit of experience, being able to cover what all the other bids mean (even if it is at this high level missing some of the details, exceptions, and nuances), and thus why the take out X is what it is, I think helps make it seem more logical.
Then when you cover the responses if people sort of get that the logic is about finding ~25/26 hcp games with 4-4 or 4-5 or 3-5 major fits or in nt with the opponent's suit stopped, and about finding the best strain for partscores when the game is out of the picture the responses make more sense too.
#3
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 1,168
- Joined: 2012-May-17
- Gender:Male
- Location:Cincinnati Unit 124
- Interests:Family, Travel, Bridge Tournaments and Writing. Youth Bridge
Posted 2013-January-31, 20:50
I think you have a cogent structure.
I've found it helpful to start with the differences between constructive bidding (when opponents don't interfere in our auctions) and competitive auctions (split into when they interfere and when we interfere). This allows us to show that the intervening structure (overcalls, cue bids, and doubles) are special and different from auctions where we opened the bidding first. It's also useful to show direct and balancing actions are not equivalent. The general idea is to paint the various contexts and create an understanding of the reasons why bidding changes depending on the context.
Once this context is understood, I find it useful to do what Mbodell did above - discuss the issues with strength and distribution and how much we need to communicate with appropriate accuracy. Here it's good to discuss why overlaps in bidding are usually avoided (not 2 or more ways to bid the same things).
Then the focus needs to be on cases, and how the scheme you propose helps decide strain and level given they opened the bidding first.
Jumping straight into doubles or overcalls (without one accompanying the other) without helping fols understand why bidding adjusts as it does invites disbelief and misunderstanding.
Heres a link to a series of lectures for the Cincinnati Bridge Association aimed at NLMs - might or might not be more advanced than your target as I understand your audience. You are welcome to them, or at least the ideas and teaching strategy. Learning Points
Regards,
Steve
I've found it helpful to start with the differences between constructive bidding (when opponents don't interfere in our auctions) and competitive auctions (split into when they interfere and when we interfere). This allows us to show that the intervening structure (overcalls, cue bids, and doubles) are special and different from auctions where we opened the bidding first. It's also useful to show direct and balancing actions are not equivalent. The general idea is to paint the various contexts and create an understanding of the reasons why bidding changes depending on the context.
Once this context is understood, I find it useful to do what Mbodell did above - discuss the issues with strength and distribution and how much we need to communicate with appropriate accuracy. Here it's good to discuss why overlaps in bidding are usually avoided (not 2 or more ways to bid the same things).
Then the focus needs to be on cases, and how the scheme you propose helps decide strain and level given they opened the bidding first.
Jumping straight into doubles or overcalls (without one accompanying the other) without helping fols understand why bidding adjusts as it does invites disbelief and misunderstanding.
Heres a link to a series of lectures for the Cincinnati Bridge Association aimed at NLMs - might or might not be more advanced than your target as I understand your audience. You are welcome to them, or at least the ideas and teaching strategy. Learning Points
Regards,
Steve
Be the partner you want to play with.
Trust demands integrity, balance and collaboration.
District 11
Unit 124
Steve Moese
Trust demands integrity, balance and collaboration.
District 11
Unit 124
Steve Moese
#4
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 10,702
- Joined: 2006-May-18
- Gender:Not Telling
Posted 2013-February-01, 05:26
You probably did not devote enough time to each section and the students may also not have the groundwork 100%. Basically, you teach takeout doubles only after the students are completely happy with overcalls. Then the concept of using Double to handle the hands outside of overall range is easier for them to grasp. If this were my first class, I would certainly have started with a refresher on overcalls before delving into takeout doubles, if only to get an idea of the level of the students. If they are not certain on that topic then it is pointless progressing with the lesson plan as envisaged.
You can also simplify some of the bids somewhat. The NT ranges are the same as in Acol/SAYC/Forum D/etc so you can just teach them this as essentially the same thing but promising a stopper. Similarly, you can compare the jump response with a limit raise. I think these comparisons really help to pull ideas together for players who are learning and have not really considered how a bidding system fits together.
It is also really important to spend time after each section with some examples and practise hands so that they can get the ideas settled in their heads before moving on to the next section. You would not teach a child how to do long division without giving them any exercises to get the method clear in their heads and some confidence on getting the right answer. The same applies to bridge students.
You can also simplify some of the bids somewhat. The NT ranges are the same as in Acol/SAYC/Forum D/etc so you can just teach them this as essentially the same thing but promising a stopper. Similarly, you can compare the jump response with a limit raise. I think these comparisons really help to pull ideas together for players who are learning and have not really considered how a bidding system fits together.
It is also really important to spend time after each section with some examples and practise hands so that they can get the ideas settled in their heads before moving on to the next section. You would not teach a child how to do long division without giving them any exercises to get the method clear in their heads and some confidence on getting the right answer. The same applies to bridge students.
(-: Zel :-)
Page 1 of 1
- You cannot start a new topic
- Add Reply