[lalldonn]

1. T J8xxx AQ9x Jxx, partner deals, r/r
1♠ p 1NT (forcing) p
2♣ p ?
Sorry no bart or anything like that available. 2♣ is 4+ or 5233 or 5323.

2. KJx xx AJx QJxxx, I deal, r/r
1♣ 1♥ 1♠ (5+) 1NT
X (support) 2♥ 3♦ P
?

3. AKxx K9xx KJxx J, RHO deals, w/w
2♥ ?

[TylerE]

1. Pass. I don't want to hear 2♠ over 2♥, and opps may well balance after 2♣ - pass - pass
2. Pass. Partner heard my support double. Don't think I have enough to double it. Fairly routine 4♠ call now that I've read the auction correctly.
3. Pass for now. X if it feels like I need a board, but that could well blow up in my face. 2♠ if partner has a sense of humour.

[mikeh]

1. pass. At least two players will be happy. I suspect not us. But anything is a guess, and I once heard of a partner bid with way with a black two suiter.

2. 4♠. Very, very close but 'invite heavy, accept light' and while I am minimum, I have zero wasted.


3. Pass. If I were forced not to pass, I'd try 2♠ before 2N, but this is an easy pass for me. I think my action should partner reopen with a double is also of interest.

[mikeh]

duplicate post

[mikeh]

TylerE, on 2012-December-21, 12:41, said:

2. Pass. Partner heard my support double. Don't think I have enough to double it.

I think you misread the auction: I think it was your partner, who certainly doesn't want to play 3♦

[TWO4BRIDGE]

lalldonn, on 2012-December-21, 12:08, said:

2. KJx xx AJx QJxxx, I deal, r/r
1♣ 1♥ 1♠ (5+) 1NT
X (support) 2♥ 3♦ P
?

4♠ - - Partner has made a gametry in ♦.

[TylerE]

mikeh, on 2012-December-21, 12:49, said:

I think you misread the auction: I think it was your partner, who certainly doesn't want to play 3♦

Oh wait, yea, oops. Pretty routine 4♠ for me now. I'd probably do even with Axx of ♦

[JLOGIC]

1) LOL forcing NT and all that. It's really a complete guess, I would go with 2H and be prepared to look ridiculous. Since it's MP I have the upside that hearts makes 110 into 90 if it's a partscore hand, and partner might be 6-4 and bid 2S or have extras and bid 2N or 3H or even 3C. I am actually pretty optimistic that a 5-2 heart fit will not be so bad on a diamond lead, and a 5-3 heart fit would obviously be really nice. A 5-1 heart fit... not so good lol.

2) 3H which is undoubtedly the jdonn bid I have a minimum and the QJ of clubs looks pretty terrible, but I do have good spades and diamonds! I think it's closer to 3S than 4S tbh, if partner is 5341 which he rates to be my hand is just not all that great. AQTxx Qxx Kxxx x is a pretty normal hand for partner and game is pretty awful.

3) 2N, sick bid but we are w/w at MP.

[gnasher]

Pass. If that's a 3-3 fit, it's just a consequence of the methods. It seems to me more likely that 2♥ is a 5-1 fit.

3♥, saying that I don't know whether to bid game or not.

Pass. No other action is attractive.

[JLOGIC]

I think at the club they are like 100 % to lead a diamond on 1S 1N 2C 2H AP.

You know my style is to always bid and be an animal playing MP vs weak players, you get so many extra tricks when declaring if you can play major suits and NT or play the hand when you are white/white good things just happen.

[mikeh]

Interesting discussion about the meaning of 3♥ over partner's presumed game try 3♦.

I had thought of it, precisely as its advocates suggest: showing an inbetween hand.

But why does it mean that?

I think it should but I'd be worried hauling it out in an undiscussed partnership. We haven't limited our hand in any way, beyond opening 1♣. As I understand how support doubles are played, we'd have doubled with KJx x AJxx AKQxx or KJx Ax AJx AQxxx

Those look like 3♥ calls to me (altho maybe my first example could be a 4♥ call).

I accept that maybe one can have it both ways: bid 3♥ both on the powerhouse and the inbetween hand, intending to bid game over a signoff with the former and drive to at least the 5-level if he were to bid game over 3♥. However, I was concerned that he might just assume that I have the powerhouse and bid too much.

[ArtK78]

I have a question about the auction on 2.

If partner's 1♠ bid promises 5, why am I making a support double on 3? Should I not raise on 3 or 4 and make a support double with 2 (perhaps Hx)?

That said, I agree with Pass; 3♥; and Pass.

[TylerE]

No, because the difference between an 8 and 9 card trump suit is very often relevant.

[JLOGIC]

mikeh, on 2012-December-21, 13:26, said:

I accept that maybe one can have it both ways: bid 3♥ both on the powerhouse and the inbetween hand, intending to bid game over a signoff with the former and drive to at least the 5-level if he were to bid game over 3♥. However, I was concerned that he might just assume that I have the powerhouse and bid too much.

Yes, I think you have it right there. Much like below 3N cuebids are trying to get to 3N but may be slam tries, I think in between bids in game try auctions are best played as counter game tries (and are non specific if there is only one of them, like last train, except for game). Game before slam and all that.

I think this should even apply at the 2 level, for example (1C) 1H (p) 2C (p) 2D could just be a reasonable hand that is not willing to go beyond the 2 level (since the ranges are so wide).

This might seem like it is cutting it too thin, but there are definitely hands that are not minimum but not excellent and this facilitates accurate game bidding IME.

[lalldonn]

Sorry to poison my own thread since it's going so well, but I forgot to mention it was a swiss team at the club! I still found the answers for mps interesting. Anyone care to change any answers?

[JLOGIC]

Id pass 2C and pass 2H

[ewj]

I'm not saying it's not but is it normal to still play support X when responder has shown 5+ spades? I guess it helps partner to judge better if he knows you have a 4th trump, so do you think support is still the best use for X?

And yeh i would pass 2C and 2H....would probably bid 4S - IMPs

[JLOGIC]

1) I think playing support doubles of 1N in general are bad. Maybe if they show extras, but I'd still prefer penalty. Xing a natural 1N of any kind with a weak NT hand type seems like a bad idea, I'd rather defend 1N than play something with min balanced hands and no fit and they can double us more easily.

2) I think playing support doubles when partner shows 5 spades over a non 1N bid (eg 1C 1H 1S 2H X) is "standard" in the USA but not necessarily best. I know levin and weinstein play it as a good hand with 2 spades, I guess basically takeout. I have never played it as anything but support since that is the standard approach in my country so I cannot comment on whether I think it's best, but it seems reasonable to play it as extras with a doubleton.

[Fluffy]

nice to know there are grey areas in support double everywhere, I always wondered if they were suposed to be on when opponents overcall nat NT, or sandwich NT, or our minor naturally, or even partner's suit naturally.

[PhilKing]

1. 2♥. I don't know what the percentage action is, but I remember a couple of ludicrous results for passing 2♣ when I used to play this method.

2. 3♠. I like my spade and diamond holdings, but I also have some bad features, since I suspect partner has a stiff club. Even ♠AQxxx ♥Jxx ♦KQxx ♣x is not enough, since I anticipate a trump lead and partner need not be that strong. In reality I would punt it against randoms.

3. Pass. Make the hand slightly better and I go for the off-shape double, ready to pass partner's 2NT lebensohl response!