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Call after RHO opens 3H

#1 User is offline   kgr 

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Posted 2012-September-26, 08:34

Teams/Imp's

- I didn't play this with my regular partner. No agreements, so assume everything is natural.
- With my regular partner we have some strange agreements where DBL=transfer to ; and 4=6c&4c; and 3 is transfer to 3NT (no stop); and 5 is to play. With these agreement 3 is obvious?
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#2 User is offline   Phil 

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Posted 2012-September-26, 08:44

One of these days I'm going to open a kgr thread and not see some bizarre structure mentioned.

Yes, I think if I did play these methods, 3 seems sensible, since we can rightside the hand when partner has the A.

I would bid 3N with a straight face.
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#3 User is offline   CSGibson 

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Posted 2012-September-26, 09:45

View PostPhil, on 2012-September-26, 08:44, said:

One of these days I'm going to open a kgr thread and not see some bizarre structure mentioned.

Yes, I think if I did play these methods, 3 seems sensible, since we can rightside the hand when partner has the A.

I would bid 3N with a straight face.



3N is a parlay that 1) partner has hearts stopped, 2) partner has at least a trick outside of his heart stop, and 3) that partner doesn't raise you or put you in 4 anyway.

Call me chicken, but I'm going to do the old-fashioned thing and bid what's in front of my face - 4. I know that will be the best action at matchpoints (frequency basis), and I bet a sim would prove its also best at teams.
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#4 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2012-September-26, 10:27

View Postkgr, on 2012-September-26, 08:34, said:

Teams/Imp's

- I didn't play this with my regular partner. No agreements, so assume everything is natural.
- With my regular partner we have some strange agreements where DBL=transfer to ; and 4=6c&4c; and 3 is transfer to 3NT (no stop); and 5 is to play. With these agreement 3 is obvious?

And what do you do with a takeout double? I guess 3S and partner can still pass for penalties (=penalising me for making him play these methods).
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
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#5 User is offline   Phil 

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Posted 2012-September-26, 10:31

View PostCSGibson, on 2012-September-26, 09:45, said:

3N is a parlay that 1) partner has hearts stopped, 2) partner has at least a trick outside of his heart stop, and 3) that partner doesn't raise you or put you in 4 anyway.

Call me chicken, but I'm going to do the old-fashioned thing and bid what's in front of my face - 4. I know that will be the best action at matchpoints (frequency basis), and I bet a sim would prove its also best at teams.


You aren't a chicken. I'm re-reading Matchpoints, and there's a similar hand with 4225 16 where Woolsey with a 2 opening and he suggested a 3m overcall instead of 2N or an offshape double.

Call me crazy, but I also win when LHO doesn't lead his stiff heart, hearts block, or RHO ducks expecting me to have Qxx. As far as developing a 9th trick, this isn't much of a concern if RHO is out of the picture since I'm playing double dummy.

I'm also a big believer in the idea if you have to guess, at least guess where there's some upside.
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#6 User is offline   kgr 

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Posted 2012-September-26, 11:18

View Postgwnn, on 2012-September-26, 10:27, said:

And what do you do with a takeout double? I guess 3S and partner can still pass for penalties (=penalising me for making him play these methods).

Note that here I didn't play with my regular partner, so the methods didn't apply.
For methods with my regular partner: DBL is transfer to , at least a 4c. With a TO DBL we can also DBL if we have at least 4c.
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#7 User is offline   CSGibson 

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Posted 2012-September-26, 11:47

View PostPhil, on 2012-September-26, 10:31, said:

You aren't a chicken. I'm re-reading Matchpoints, and there's a similar hand with 4225 16 where Woolsey with a 2 opening and he suggested a 3m overcall instead of 2N or an offshape double.

Call me crazy, but I also win when LHO doesn't lead his stiff heart, hearts block, or RHO ducks expecting me to have Qxx. As far as developing a 9th trick, this isn't much of a concern if RHO is out of the picture since I'm playing double dummy.

I'm also a big believer in the idea if you have to guess, at least guess where there's some upside.


There is upside to 4, or any call that accurately describes our hand opposite an unpassed partner. This could very easily get us to our diamond slam, or making diamond game when 3N is going down 3 vulnerable. This is not the same situation where we are in the balancing seat after an opponent has failed to raise, partner can have a heart void still at this point. I don't think the math supports a 3N call, even though it can work sometimes.
Chris Gibson
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#8 User is offline   lalldonn 

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Posted 2012-September-26, 11:59

I'm so sure 3NT is the best bid (ignoring the weird methods) that I wouldn't be happy if my partner did anything else.

If I was really playing 3 is a transfer to 3NT, then sure why not do that!
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#9 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2012-September-26, 14:19

oops
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
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#10 User is offline   kgr 

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Posted 2012-September-28, 09:14

Thank you all for the answers.
I wondered if this could also be a 3NT bid and for some it actually seems to be (I'm not convinced it is best).
Maybe I should not post who the bidding continued :rolleyes: :
Teams/Imp's

My partner was weak with a 6c. LHO had KQx and a singleton .
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