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Pass or pull?

#1 User is offline   jonottawa 

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Posted 2012-March-22, 15:27

All White, matchpoints, dealer

x ATxx xx AQT9xx

1C - P - 1D - 2C*(majors)
X - 3S - X (penalty oriented) - P
?
"Maybe we should all get together and buy Kaitlyn a box set of "All in the Family" for Chanukah. Archie didn't think he was a racist, the problem was with all the chinks, dagos, niggers, kikes, etc. ruining the country." ~ barmar
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#2 User is offline   dake50 

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Posted 2012-March-22, 17:09

Yuk I'm in this situation.
Both pass and 3C last round leave us better placed.
4C. Just maybe they won't go 4S making.
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#3 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2012-March-22, 17:15

Have I shown a normal opening bid with some clubs? If so, I pass.

Partner seems to want to defend 3♠x, I have two aces and a slow heart trick, and all my high cards are outside partner's suit. Why would I bid?
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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#4 User is offline   JLOGIC 

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Posted 2012-March-22, 17:26

Partner made a penalty double and I have 2 aces and a stiff and a good holding in their second suit. Tough decision lol.
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#5 User is offline   MrAce 

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Posted 2012-March-22, 17:29

I'd pass too, already showed i have clubs and holding a 6-4 with side 4 card being their suit is not good enough reason to pull. As Andy said i have 2 aces and i have xx in pd's suit too.
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#6 User is online   mikeh 

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Posted 2012-March-22, 17:36

As others have said, this is a wtp pass.

Having said that, I don't like the double as natural: I like it as showing a good hand such that it invites partner to express a penalty double. This is a minimal opener (I think it is an opening bid for all but the latent Roth-Stoners amongst us). If double merely said I'd like to compete to 3♣ but can't by myself, then it is acceptable....and makes pass even more obvious. If we have misbid via double and now regret it....too bad....there is nothing more destructive to partnership confidence than making one terrible bid out of fear that we made an earlier terrible bid. If they make, and it's because we misbid over 2♣, we apologize and move on.
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#7 User is offline   jonottawa 

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Posted 2012-March-22, 18:01

Spoiler

"Maybe we should all get together and buy Kaitlyn a box set of "All in the Family" for Chanukah. Archie didn't think he was a racist, the problem was with all the chinks, dagos, niggers, kikes, etc. ruining the country." ~ barmar
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#8 User is offline   benlessard 

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Posted 2012-March-22, 18:51

Really hard to believe. Penalty double are like hieroglyph before Champollion nobody know what they mean anymore.
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#9 User is offline   ggwhiz 

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Posted 2012-March-22, 21:32

Yeah, I read that in the Bulletin and was shocked that it even went to committee.

Apparently the only logical alternative in such an auction is to believe the opponents instead of your partner.
When a deaf person goes to court is it still called a hearing?
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#10 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2012-March-23, 01:32

That's a bit of a shocker.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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#11 User is offline   Codo 

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Posted 2012-March-23, 04:17

So we are all morons with no idea how to play (and rule) the game. :(
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#12 User is offline   WesleyC 

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Posted 2012-March-24, 07:29

Wow, that's a crazy ruling...
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#13 User is offline   wank 

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Posted 2012-March-24, 08:41

are EW any good? top players normally get rulings in their favour - committee members seem to be believe the crap they spout in appeals.
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#14 User is offline   dake50 

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Posted 2012-March-24, 10:05

Does opponents JUMP to 3S affect the decision to stand this double?
Did my X as defending one Major affect now play penalties?
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#15 User is offline   nigel_k 

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Posted 2012-March-25, 13:45

If South is 100% sure that his double shows this hand type and partner knows that, then it is a clear pass.

But based on the hand North had for his 'penalty' double, clearly N/S were not that solid in their agreements. Possibly South suspected (without UI) that partner might expect a different hand for South's double. Then it is not so unreasonable to resolve the dilemma by choosing to believe the opponents.
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#16 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2012-March-25, 16:35

View Postnigel_k, on 2012-March-25, 13:45, said:

If South is 100% sure that his double shows this hand type and partner knows that, then it is a clear pass.

But based on the hand North had for his 'penalty' double, clearly N/S were not that solid in their agreements. Possibly South suspected (without UI) that partner might expect a different hand for South's double. Then it is not so unreasonable to resolve the dilemma by choosing to believe the opponents.

"It's not so unreasonable to" doesn't mean the same as "There is no logical alternative to".
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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#17 User is offline   ArtK78 

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Posted 2012-March-25, 16:58

I find this appeals committee ruling hard to believe. As others have said, it should not even have gone to committee.
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