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Does this exist?

#1 User is offline   wyman 

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Posted 2011-October-07, 13:45

2N - 3D (--> )
3H - 4D
4N - 5D
5S

2N 20-21
4N to play (does anyone think it's not?).

Does 5S exist here?

edit: This is MP. I didn't add this edit until after the first 2 replies.
"I think maybe so and so was caught cheating but maybe I don't have the names right". Sure, and I think maybe your mother .... Oh yeah, that was someone else maybe. -- kenberg

"...we live off being battle-scarred veterans who manage to hate our opponents slightly more than we hate each other. -- Hamman, re: Wolff
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#2 User is offline   Bbradley62 

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Posted 2011-October-07, 13:56

I would call 4N "natural", not "to play", since responder is in charge of what level we get to.

5 means "sorry for master-minding, partner; I should have bid spades earlier".
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#3 User is offline   Hanoi5 

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Posted 2011-October-07, 14:14

I would say it asks for the trump queen if 3 showed fit. It asks partner to bid 5NT if there's no agreement to having a fit.

View Postwyman, on 2012-May-04, 09:48, said:

Also, he rates to not have a heart void when he leads the 3.


View Postrbforster, on 2012-May-20, 21:04, said:

Besides playing for fun, most people also like to play bridge to win


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In all fields of endeavour emotion is the arch-enemy of judgement.

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#4 User is offline   wyman 

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Posted 2011-October-07, 14:17

View PostBbradley62, on 2011-October-07, 13:56, said:

I would call 4N "natural", not "to play", since responder is in charge of what level we get to.

5 means "sorry for master-minding, partner; I should have bid spades earlier".


When earlier?
In the system we're playing:
3S after 3D is a superaccept [should it be something else?]
4S after 4D is a cuebid
"I think maybe so and so was caught cheating but maybe I don't have the names right". Sure, and I think maybe your mother .... Oh yeah, that was someone else maybe. -- kenberg

"...we live off being battle-scarred veterans who manage to hate our opponents slightly more than we hate each other. -- Hamman, re: Wolff
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#5 User is offline   wyman 

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Posted 2011-October-07, 14:18

View PostHanoi5, on 2011-October-07, 14:14, said:

I would say it asks for the trump queen if 3 showed fit. It asks partner to bid 5NT if there's no agreement to having a fit.


3H showed "not a superaccept." It did not imply 3H, and if my understanding is correct, 4N should show exactly 2 hearts and 3 diamonds
"I think maybe so and so was caught cheating but maybe I don't have the names right". Sure, and I think maybe your mother .... Oh yeah, that was someone else maybe. -- kenberg

"...we live off being battle-scarred veterans who manage to hate our opponents slightly more than we hate each other. -- Hamman, re: Wolff
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#6 User is offline   wyman 

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Posted 2011-October-07, 14:19

Very sorry for the omission -- this is MPs.
"I think maybe so and so was caught cheating but maybe I don't have the names right". Sure, and I think maybe your mother .... Oh yeah, that was someone else maybe. -- kenberg

"...we live off being battle-scarred veterans who manage to hate our opponents slightly more than we hate each other. -- Hamman, re: Wolff
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#7 User is offline   sasioc 

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Posted 2011-October-07, 14:24

If my p bid it I would interpret it as "I have woken up and realised I am suitable for slam". I have no idea if this is sensible or not but would wonder if p had four low diamonds and was trying to play in NT because it was MPs, although they may well have cued 4S on that hand. This said, I'm not sure I can think of a hand that is suddenly suitable for slam facing a 5 5 and could not have bid differently at some previous point.
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#8 User is offline   Bbradley62 

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Posted 2011-October-07, 14:25

Is 5 something other than "pick a red suit at the 5 level"?
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#9 User is offline   Bbradley62 

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Posted 2011-October-07, 14:27

View Postwyman, on 2011-October-07, 14:18, said:

3H showed "not a superaccept." It did not imply 3H, and if my understanding is correct, 4N should show exactly 2 hearts and 3 diamonds
but not 4225 or 5224?
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#10 User is offline   gszes 

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Posted 2011-October-07, 14:28

I think the 5d bid has revealed a ten card
dia fit and dramatically improved the opening
2n hand. Opener invites 7d with the following
hands.

bid 5h with

AKx
Kx
Kxxxx
AKx

bid 5s with

AKQ
Kx
Kxxxx
KQx

5n with

Axx
AK
Qxxxx
AKx

bid 6c with

KQx
Kx
Kxxxx
AKQ

these bid invite responder to bid 7d with the appropriate type of hand


I seriously doubt this is a standard treatment
since not a lot of hands like this crop up it is
just a treatment I like.
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#11 User is offline   Bbradley62 

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Posted 2011-October-07, 14:34

View Postgszes, on 2011-October-07, 14:28, said:

I think the 5d bid has revealed a ten card dia fit..
I think you either misread the auction or mis-spoke here...
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#12 User is offline   Hanoi5 

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Posted 2011-October-07, 14:38

When I said 5 asks responder to bid 5NT Imeant it in case 4NT was asking for aces. But since 5 is natural 5 could be natural as mentioned earlier.

View Postwyman, on 2012-May-04, 09:48, said:

Also, he rates to not have a heart void when he leads the 3.


View Postrbforster, on 2012-May-20, 21:04, said:

Besides playing for fun, most people also like to play bridge to win


Mi Blog

In all fields of endeavour emotion is the arch-enemy of judgement.

Kelsey
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#13 User is offline   wyman 

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Posted 2011-October-07, 15:05

View PostBbradley62, on 2011-October-07, 14:27, said:

but not 4225 or 5224?


sure, this is possible also. My apologies for using the word 'exactly.'
"I think maybe so and so was caught cheating but maybe I don't have the names right". Sure, and I think maybe your mother .... Oh yeah, that was someone else maybe. -- kenberg

"...we live off being battle-scarred veterans who manage to hate our opponents slightly more than we hate each other. -- Hamman, re: Wolff
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#14 User is offline   JLOGIC 

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Posted 2011-October-07, 15:45

5D to me shows 5 hearts and 6 diamonds non forcing.

I do not think that partner can logically be trying for 7 when 4N was not only not forcing, but a pretty strong statement about the crappiness of hand/solidity of blacksuit stoppers, and 5D is not only not forcing, but a pretty strong statement about how weak the hand is (it doesn't want to play 4N, a hand with 5 hearts and 6 diamonds could be pretty weak to bid this way).

I would say "does not exist" or more likely "the 5S bidder thinks something else is happening than I do on this hand."
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#15 User is offline   JLOGIC 

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Posted 2011-October-07, 15:45

The suggestion of natural reminds me of that famous brad/fred hand. With Brad I probably would take it as natural actually. I guess natural is correct, but with most players it would be far more likely they'd never open 2N and want to bid 5S naturally, and thus more likely that we're having a misunderstanding.
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#16 User is offline   the hog 

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Posted 2011-October-07, 19:07

5D is to play or bid 5H for me. I agree that 5H and 6/7Ds is a likely scenario. 5S is off with the Nuckalaveys.
"The King of Hearts a broadsword bears, the Queen of Hearts a rose." W. H. Auden.
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#17 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2011-October-07, 19:22

Assuming for the moment we are not having a misunderstanding (per JL):

We didn't have a super-accept of hearts, and 4NT was to play and without four diamonds (We didn't cue 4S/4D or raise them).

IMO, after 5D opener is now cuebidding spades for diamonds after responder insisted on red suit play.
"Bidding Spades to show spades can work well." (Kenberg)
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#18 User is offline   the hog 

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Posted 2011-October-07, 22:49

View Postaguahombre, on 2011-October-07, 19:22, said:

Assuming for the moment we are not having a misunderstanding (per JL):

We didn't have a super-accept of hearts, and 4NT was to play and without four diamonds (We didn't cue 4S/4D or raise them).

IMO, after 5D opener is now cuebidding spades for diamonds after responder insisted on red suit play.


I suspect that is what the bidder meant. However does it make sense? Responder has suggested a 5 level contract in Ds. opener is now forcing to 6 with 5S. Has opener found an extra D or Aces previously hidden behind his cards?
"The King of Hearts a broadsword bears, the Queen of Hearts a rose." W. H. Auden.
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#19 User is offline   wank 

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Posted 2011-October-07, 23:39

my guess would be opener's got a selection of honours in the reds but no length and has now realised his honours are the nuts when respodner has 11+ red cards

something like this


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#20 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2011-October-08, 01:06

You can use the bid to ask for the queen of trumps, regardless of how many keys responder might have.
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