[inquiry]

Déjà vu. This hand played recently leads to a situation similar to Problem 2 in this month's (September) ACBL bullentin's "the bidding box" column. In that column, the moderator (Paul Linxwiler) quotes Marshal Miles that anytime you hold AK doubleton in a suit and partner invites you to pick between 3NT and 4 of the Major you should pick the major.

Here East suggest 5♠ and 4♥, and west chose to play 3NT. Bad luck, as 4♠ is makes and with good defense, 3NT does not make. EW got the killing defense (most in 3NT did not). North lead the ♦8 and south ducked, but played an encouraging diamond. West won the ♦JACK, and was down one before he had much of a chance.

So this one hand could be another assess the blame post (why did EW arrive in 3NT?), or defensive play hand question hand (Where you need to find the duck of the opening diamond lead with south's hand), or a discussion hand to follow on the problem 2 thingee in the bulletin, about raising to 4M on doubleton honor. Or we could just chalk it up to bad luck all the way around. But I give 100% of the blame on WEST or on South for finding the right play at trick one. I think that makes this fall squarely in the interesting (At least timingwise) hand.

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[chasetb]

East clearly overbid if you asked me, but once he decided to force to game West HAS TO support the Spades. Spades may only be a 7-card suit, but knowing you have the top 2 honors makes it a better suit. The big problem is entries to the weaker hand. Since I play results (to a degree), I blame West 100% - kudos to North and South for their defense.

In my admittedly limited number of hands remembered, 4M on a 5-2 fit (2 = AK) has been better than 3NT after partner opens 1NT all but once, where the Smolen bidder had 13 HCP and both 5M and 5NT made. I also recently had two hands where we ended up playing in 4M after I supported his 5-card suit on KQ (One of them was a mistake, he had showed me 6). One hand I had 13 HCP, the other I had 15; both times 4M made. 3NT failed on the 13 HCP hand and made on the 15 HCP hand because the minor suit was blocked.

[FrancesHinden]

Try swapping East's minors around, and then decide if you would rather play in 4S or 3NT?
(actually I'd rather not play in either, but 3NT is definitely better unless they are going to lead a diamond and switch to clubs)


These hands are really difficult to get right, simply saying you should 'always' bid 4M when you have two honours doubleton is missing the point.
Saying you should definitely consider it is much fairer, but it's hard to explore 4M vs 3NT without playing some clever methods.

[whereagles]

I don't see how to avoid the bad 3NT game unless RHO has a splinter gadget like 1NT-3D or something similar.

A signoff in spades also comes to mind lol.

[xxhong]

I would also bid 3NT here in a different auction:
1D 1S
2N(17-18) 3D(transfer to H)
3N(denies 3S and 4H) pass.
Well, it's quite unlikely to lead D here now.

I don't buy the concept that players have to play 5-2 fit if the 2 is AK. Often, you may not need the suit to be set up to make 3NT, especially when you hold some extra, like 26-27 HCP combined.

inquiry, on 2011-August-28, 23:15, said:

Déjà vu. This hand played recently leads to a situation similar to Problem 2 in this month's (September) ACBL bullentin's "the bidding box" column. In that column, the moderator (Paul Linxwiler) quotes Marshal Miles that anytime you hold AK doubleton in a suit and partner invites you to pick between 3NT and 4 of the Major you should pick the major.

Here East suggest 5♠ and 4♥, and west chose to play 3NT. Bad luck, as 4♠ is makes and with good defense, 3NT does not make. EW got the killing defense (most in 3NT did not). North lead the ♦8 and south ducked, but played an encouraging diamond. West won the ♦JACK, and was down one before he had much of a chance.

So this one hand could be another assess the blame post (why did EW arrive in 3NT?), or defensive play hand question hand (Where you need to find the duck of the opening diamond lead with south's hand), or a discussion hand to follow on the problem 2 thingee in the bulletin, about raising to 4M on doubleton honor. Or we could just chalk it up to bad luck all the way around. But I give 100% of the blame on WEST or on South for finding the right play at trick one. I think that makes this fall squarely in the interesting (At least timingwise) hand.

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[chasetb]

I'm not saying any two honors, I'm saying I always will with AK, especially if I'm the stronger hand and I see transportation issues (pretty much every time I open a strong NT with AK in a major). I do the same exact thing with A tight when partner shows a 6-card suit. I don't know what your experiences say, but mine say that I am better off.

[inquiry]

I didn't mean to suggest that Marshal was right or wrong, or that EW bidding was correct (I was south, so didn't think too much about their bidding). It was just that this hand came up and after I defeated 3NT (the only game contract to go down, 4S or 3NT) the discussion at the table went to the discussion that had just come out in the bulletin. I considered showing this hand as a Defensive play thingee in the beginner/intermediate forum (it can't be that hard a play, I found it), but the coincidence and the table discussion made it "interesting" to me... I don't know what was led at other tables.

[rhm]

FrancesHinden, on 2011-August-29, 03:51, said:

Try swapping East's minors around, and then decide if you would rather play in 4S or 3NT?
(actually I'd rather not play in either, but 3NT is definitely better unless they are going to lead a diamond and switch to clubs)


These hands are really difficult to get right, simply saying you should 'always' bid 4M when you have two honours doubleton is missing the point.
Saying you should definitely consider it is much fairer, but it's hard to explore 4M vs 3NT without playing some clever methods.

So you consider and then you still have to take a decision based on the information you have.

At least in this case you know:

East has 9 cards in the majors. If partner is short in diamonds 3NT will be a silly contract. Pure luck has it that in this case 3NT is still hard to defend.
Give partner a slightly stronger hand, say the ♣KJxx instead and 6♣ might be reasonable and 3NT is still down.
(yes, not in this curious case where ♦ are blocked)

While you might be able to construct hands where 3NT is a vastly superior contract it is odds on with the information West has that 4♠ will be superior, even at matchpoints, on the very vast majority of hands East can have. (I can simulate that if you are unconvinced)

The truth is that all the standard modern bidding gadgets over 1NT still do not allow an unbalanced responder to show his shortage below 3NT so that the notrump opener can make an intelligent decision whether to play 3NT (sometimes even with an 8 card major fit) or when to bypass 3NT (even when having no 8 card major fit).

Almost every sequence over 1NT is geared to finding out whether you have an 8 card major fit, the Holy Grail of modern bidding.

Rainer Herrmann

[JLOGIC]

first reply nailed it, the biggest problem is that east doesn't have a game force opposite no fit. 2C then 2S seems just fine. Partner has 17 with no diamond wastage and 4S is nothing great.

[whereagles]

rhm, on 2011-August-30, 03:19, said:

The truth is that all the standard modern bidding gadgets over 1NT still do not allow an unbalanced responder to show his shortage below 3NT so that the notrump opener can make an intelligent decision whether to play 3NT

That's not quite true. Many partnerships play 1NT-3x as some sort of splinter. But yeah, this has not reached standard bidding status.