[benlessard]

Our 1C 15+

All of this assume that our inv range is 6-8


In the sequence 1C-1D-1H-1S -- ??

responder has 6-8 pts without 4M + without 6m but he could be balanced or unbalanced, opener is 15-18 with at least 3H (he can still have 6C+3H 15-18 or an unbal hands with 5M 15-17 or 6S+4H, 15-17)

opener options are

1Nt = a certain range (15-16 , 15-17 or 15-18)

2C = 5 clubs 15-17 approx (note here that responder worse hand is 3352) so hes going to have at least 2 clubs and going to have 3 clubs or more at least 95%
Wich IHMO mean that every minimum hand with 5C he should bid 2C (bal or not 5M+5C too).

2D = available (5D a certain range si probably best) ( again partner worse hand is 3325 so you are heavy favorite to get 3 card support from partner) so ihmo its clear that any mini hand with 5D should bid 2D

2H = should show 6 H 15-17

2S = available (should show 6S+4H 15-17 i guess or 6 bad S and 3 decent H)

2Nt = a certain range (17,18) (18) or not available.


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If the rebid 1Nt = 15-18 then responder is expected to raise to 2Nt with a 8 count.

This will mean your going to miss game when 7 vs 18 and reach 2Nt when 15 vs 8 or 16 vs 8.
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If the 1Nt rebid is 15-16,

you will never going to missed 25pts game but you will play 2Nt when 17 vs 6 or 18 vs 6 or 17 vs 7.
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If the 1nt rebid is 15-17 (with 18 exactly you bid 2Nt)

and partner never raise 1Nt to 2NT.

you will miss 17 vs 8 and play 2Nt 18 vs 6

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If the 1nt rebid is 15-17 (with 18 exactly you bid 2Nt)

and partner raise with a 8 count

you will never miss a 25pts game but you will play 2Nt 15-8 or 16 vs 8.

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Some other concern

1C--1D--1H--1S---1nT
2C should be a club inv since we cannot show the club inv after 1C--1D--1H--- because (1NT = spades inv)
but 2D2H2S can be used for something. 2D can be a inv with only a 5 card suit and 2M can be 3 cards INV with shortness somewhere or they could be bal GF (13+).

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In principle there is a lot more of 8 vs 15 than 17 vs 6. But the fact that some minimum hand where opener have a 5 card minor are in 2C/2D and not in 1NT might change things. Also 16 vs 8 play slightly better that 18vs 6.

Wich range do you prefer ?

[rbforster]

Without a huge amount of thought,

1NT on 15-16, and responder passes
2NT on 17-18, and responder raises on 7-8

I am not sure about your suggestions that balanced hands with 5m by opener should prefer playing a minor fit over NT. With the point ranges you mentioned, 3NT is pretty much the only game available, which isn't too unlikely if you have strength since you'll have a nice minor suit to run. Telling the opps about this and trying to back into NT seems less good. I'd rather just have opener use judgment about his long minor suits and sometimes upgrade them on the basis of a likely fit in deciding to bid 1NT vs 2NT.

[glen]

how about 1NT=15-17 and you invite with the same hands that the field will when they open a 15-17 1NT? Then for the 2NT rebid, you don't pass with the same hands that the field will not pass after 1x-any;-2NT.

[benlessard]

Quote

Without a huge amount of thought,

1NT on 15-16, and responder passes
2NT on 17-18, and responder raises on 7-8

That is also what i think. 2Nt with 17 vs 6 is worse case, 18 vs 6 2Nt is slighty bad, 3Nt with 17 vs 7 doesnt bother me at all.

These cases are just lower in frequency than the equivalent case,

If short its better to play 1Nt with 15-8 and 2Nt with 17-6 than the opposite because of frequency.

Quote

I am not sure about your suggestions that balanced hands with 5m by opener should prefer playing a minor fit over NT.

I was talking imps or course. When responders denies 4M/6D and you have a 3235 i think 2C(5or6) still showing a minimum hand is safer, (since responder can have 6 pts and opener 15, 1Nt is not 100% safe). But i admit the improvement is minimal. Also for D its less clear since responder was maybe planning 1S--1Nt---2C (inv with 6 clubs) but if i bid 2D he will possibly need to return to 2M/3C with 3316 or similar shapes. Keeping 2D as 5D+5H or 5350 is nice too.