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What is 3h here?

#1 User is offline   mike777 

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Posted 2011-April-18, 09:50

In the expert world was is the common meaning of 3h here?

5-5 gf?
splinter long cl and short h?
5-4 invite?
other?


1d=1s
2c=3h?
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#2 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2011-April-18, 10:29

I think most play it as a GF 55.
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#3 User is offline   hatchett 

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Posted 2011-April-18, 10:30

I play it as a 5-5 invite.
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#4 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2011-April-18, 11:01

I prefer to play it as 5-5 game-forcing, but I think the most common interpretation in England is as a splinter.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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#5 User is offline   kenrexford 

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Posted 2011-April-18, 11:18

My vote is, "Most likely sequence to result in 6 down three." (Inside joke.)
"Gibberish in, gibberish out. A trial judge, three sets of lawyers, and now three appellate judges cannot agree on what this law means. And we ask police officers, prosecutors, defense lawyers, and citizens to enforce or abide by it? The legislature continues to write unreadable statutes. Gibberish should not be enforced as law."

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#6 User is offline   kgr 

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Posted 2011-April-18, 12:23

With my regular partner:
splinter long cl and short h
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#7 User is offline   TWO4BRIDGE 

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Posted 2011-April-18, 12:57

Jump-over-a-4th-suit bid = Splinter for Opener's last bid suit ( here )... unfortunately, not accepted universally, so you need prior discussion.

If you wanted to show a 5-5 GF, just bid 2H! ( 4th Suit GF ) and then 3H again.

If you had invitational values and a 5s/4h hand, I think you have to roll it into a 2NT rebid:
1D - 1S
2C - 2NT
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
This is probably another advertisement to use XYZ .
Don Stenmark
TWOferBRIDGE
"imo by far in bridge the least understood concept is how to bid over a jump-shift
( 1M-1NT!-3m-?? )." ....Justin Lall

" Did someone mention relays? " .... Zelandakh

K-Rex to Mikeh : " Sometimes you drive me nuts " .
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#8 User is offline   TWO4BRIDGE 

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Posted 2011-April-18, 14:58

I copied this off the old MSN Message Board back in Feb, 2005 ( I don't know if it still holds today ):

Taken directly from the Bridge World web site.
___________________________________________________________________
After a one-level new-suit response and opener’s simple new-suit rebid:

(a) two notrump or three of any suit previously bid is invitational;

(b) a fourth-suit bid that is either a reverse or a three-level bid is forcing to game;

(c ) a fourth-suit non-reverse at the two level is [default:] forcing for one round, and responder may pass if opener bids two of responder’s first suit, two notrump, or a non-reverse minimum number in one of his own suits { forcing to game [leaf] };

(d) a bid one level above a not-game-forcing fourth-suit bid is natural (five-five or more) and game-forcing (to invite with the same shape, responder bids the fourth suit cheaply twice);

(e) a bid one level above a game-forcing fourth-suit bid is a splinter;

______________________________________________________________________________

So, for the example given here:
1D - 1S
2C - 3H jump = natural 5/5, GF [ see (d) above ]

And that is because the following is forcing 1 round only ( F1 ) and NOT a GF:
1D - 1S
2C - 2H! ( F1 ) [ see ( c ) above ] .
Don Stenmark
TWOferBRIDGE
"imo by far in bridge the least understood concept is how to bid over a jump-shift
( 1M-1NT!-3m-?? )." ....Justin Lall

" Did someone mention relays? " .... Zelandakh

K-Rex to Mikeh : " Sometimes you drive me nuts " .
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#9 User is offline   kenrexford 

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Posted 2011-April-18, 15:35

Yep -- that's how I play it. 2 is forcing, but not GF. Hence, 1...3 is 5-5 GF.

But, discussion is key. And, discussion with everyone remembering the discussion also is key.
"Gibberish in, gibberish out. A trial judge, three sets of lawyers, and now three appellate judges cannot agree on what this law means. And we ask police officers, prosecutors, defense lawyers, and citizens to enforce or abide by it? The legislature continues to write unreadable statutes. Gibberish should not be enforced as law."

-P.J. Painter.
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#10 User is offline   JLOGIC 

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Posted 2011-April-18, 15:47

I think 5-5 inv is the most common interpretation here, but I also like 5-5 GF
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#11 User is offline   TWO4BRIDGE 

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Posted 2011-April-18, 16:49

And to get SPLINTERS into the mix ( using BWS criteria -- my post # 8 ) you have to:
A) go to the 4-level or

B) jump-reverse, if possible .
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

So for the given auction:
1D - 1S
2C - ??
2H! = F1
2NT/3C/3D/3S = invitational
3H jump = 5/5 GF
4H double-jump = Splinter for

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The folowing would be a reverse auction:
1D - 1H
2C - ??
2S! = GF
2NT/3C/3D/3H = invitational
3S jump-reverse = Splinter for

Don Stenmark
TWOferBRIDGE
"imo by far in bridge the least understood concept is how to bid over a jump-shift
( 1M-1NT!-3m-?? )." ....Justin Lall

" Did someone mention relays? " .... Zelandakh

K-Rex to Mikeh : " Sometimes you drive me nuts " .
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#12 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2011-April-19, 02:07

Over here most common is GF 5-5. I haven't seen anyone play something else unless specifically discussed.
"It may be rude to leave to go to the bathroom, but it's downright stupid to sit there and piss yourself" - blackshoe
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#13 User is offline   peachy 

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Posted 2011-April-23, 05:46

4th suit forcing, this can be agreed as 5-5 invit. Practical.
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#14 User is offline   FrancesHinden 

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Posted 2011-April-23, 07:20

I play it as 5-5 INV (5-5 game force starts with 2h). I can't say what is 'standard' because most people haven't discussed it.
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#15 User is offline   mfa1010 

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Posted 2011-April-23, 07:28

5-5 inv for us.
Michael Askgaard
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#16 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2011-April-23, 19:27

we play french style, as Frederick.
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#17 User is offline   OleBerg 

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Posted 2011-April-24, 04:30

In Denmark 5-5 invitational has some following, but so does GF.

Personally I prefer it to show club-support with GF. (In the context, that 2 guarantees four.)
_____________________________________

Do not underestimate the power of the dark side. Or the ninth trumph.

Best Regards Ole Berg

_____________________________________

We should always assume 2/1 unless otherwise stated, because:

- If the original poster didn't bother to state his system, that means that he thinks it's obvious what he's playing. The only people who think this are 2/1 players.


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#18 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2011-April-26, 07:10

There's considerable risk in playing this as invitational. What if there is misfit and invite is declined? You can't go back to 2NT...

Besides, if this is invitational, you won't have good enough suits to do it as much as you'd like to.
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