[inquiry]

I found this one interesting.

West starts with the ♣3 (third/fiffth best).

You win the club in dummy and whenever you play two rounds of hearts, East will follow to the first round and discards the ♣ 8 on the second round.

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think about how to play this to make. For bonus points, using two hidden clues provided describe West hand.

Spoiler

Bonus points what *#(@8#$* clues?

[allspice]

inquiry, on 2011-February-17, 00:09, said:

I found this one interesting.

West starts with the ♣3 (third/fiffth best).

You win the club in dummy and whenever you play two rounds of hearts, East will follow to the first round and discards the ♣ 8 on the second round.

---

think about how to play this to make. For bonus points, using two hidden clues provided describe West hand.

Spoiler

Bonus points what *#(@8#$* clues?

[allspice]

inquiry, on 2011-February-17, 00:09, said:

I found this one interesting.

West starts with the ♣3 (third/fiffth best).

You win the club in dummy and whenever you play two rounds of hearts, East will follow to the first round and discards the ♣ 8 on the second round.

---

think about how to play this to make. For bonus points, using two hidden clues provided describe West hand.

Spoiler

Bonus points what *#(@8#$* clues?

[allspice]

3rd time I start this post. I don't know why they keep disappearing.
According to the bidding, E has no more than 3 ♠ (a fourd card major is not convenient when opening with a preemtive) and 7 ♣. The information provided completes his hand: 1♥ and 2 ♦? (or 2♠ and 3♦ - I would win the lead in dummy and ruff a ♣, play 3 rounds of hearts, when E discards the ♣ (preferential for ♠?) I would play ♦K and a small ♦towards the A .. but will duck the 2nd round... Probably W will lead a ♠ back. If E has AK or AJ, I make my Q (thanks to the 10 in dummy), still have an entrance to dummy to cash my 4th ♠ or ♠ if one of the suits is 3/3 and the 6 ♥ = 10 tricks., If W plays ♦ and the distribution is different than 3/3, I still can play ♠ towards my Q ... If E goes up with A or K, just play him to have 2 honours and E 1. He wouldn't underlead his K after winning with the A, or would he? I would like to see a solution here!

[gnasher]

East apparently has a top spade, so something like Kx x xxx KQJxxxx or Kxx x xx KQJxxxx.

I can see a way to make when East has ♦9 and not ♠J: draw trumps and lead ♠Q. East has to win that and play a diamond, to attack dummy's entry. I play low, West plays the jack, and I win in dummy. Now I ruff a club to hand and cash my trumps, strip-squeezing West.

I can't see anything better than that at the moment - finding diamonds 3-3 with ♠J on the right is even less likely.

[Zelandakh]

Do you really believe East has opened a NV 3C with AK(x)/x/xx(x)/KQJxxxx? Does it not seem much more likely that West has the SAK? Something like AKx(x)/xxx/QJx(x)/xxx perhaps, since with CHxx they may well have raised. So it seems right to play the diamonds as king followed by ten, ducking if West covers. That makes if diamonds are 3-3 or if East started with the 9. Unfortunately, if I know Ben this hand is much more complicated than this and will result in about 2 pages of maths analysis by Rainer and co before the solution appears...

[rhm]

gnasher, on 2011-February-17, 03:40, said:

East apparently has a top spade, so something like Kx x xxx KQJxxxx or Kxx x xx KQJxxxx.



I can't see anything better than that at the moment - finding diamonds 3-3 with ♠J on the right is even less likely.

Think again.
Your analysis as usual is quite good. Now comes the difficult part: Taking full advantage of it.

Rainer Herrmann

[gnasher]

Are you saying there's a way to make it when West has ♠AJ and ♦QJ9?

[rhm]

gnasher, on 2011-February-17, 05:17, said:

Are you saying there's a way to make it when West has ♠AJ and ♦QJ9?

Yes

Rainer Herrmann

[allspice]

West can't have ♠AK because that would be his lead, to give his pd a possible ruff (he must be short somewhere). He shouldn't even have ♠A - He has one of the ♣ H, or he wouldn't lead small♣. And E has a ♠ H, because his preferential discard of the ♣
West might have the ♦ Q or J but not both. With ♠KJ (x) ♥x ♦Q or J x (x) and ♣ KJxxxxx he has a preemtive opening (though I would'n open a preemtive in a minor without AK and less if vunerable (nothing is said of that

[rogerclee]

gnasher, on 2011-February-17, 05:17, said:

Are you saying there's a way to make it when West has ♠AJ and ♦QJ9?

Say west has a hand like AJ9x xxx QJ9 Txx. Draw 3 rounds of trumps and play a low spade out of hand.

Say west ducks, we duck and let RHO win cheaply. If he refuses to cash his second spade, then they are blocked and we can set up our long diamond, so he must cash both spades and exit a diamond. We pop king and now LHO will get squeezed on the second to last heart, forced to either unguard a suit or sever the club communication, in which case he will just get squeezed in spades and diamonds.

The same thing will happen if west does not duck (he must either block the suit or allow us to set it up by force) or if east hops king instead of low (if he plays back a spade then we set up a spade trick by force, else we have killed his entry and can now set up diamonds).

I don't think the hand can be made if LHO has something like AJ9x xxx Q9x Txx.

[wank]

nm been said already by gnasher

[gnasher]

rogerclee, on 2011-February-17, 10:28, said:

Say west has a hand like AJ9x xxx QJ9 Txx. Draw 3 rounds of trumps and play a low spade out of hand.

Say west ducks, we duck and let RHO win cheaply. If he refuses to cash his second spade, then they are blocked and we can set up our long diamond, so he must cash both spades and exit a diamond. We pop king and now LHO will get squeezed on the second to last heart, forced to either unguard a suit or sever the club communication, in which case he will just get squeezed in spades and diamonds.

The same thing will happen if west does not duck (he must either block the suit or allow us to set it up by force) or if east hops king instead of low (if he plays back a spade then we set up a spade trick by force, else we have killed his entry and can now set up diamonds).

OK, but if he has AJx xxx QJxx 10xx my line works and yours doesn't. And if he has AJxx xxx QJx Txx, both lines work. Even if your line is better (which is debatable), that doesn't really justify RHM's condescending comment. So what have we missed?

[rogerclee]

gnasher, on 2011-February-17, 10:59, said:

OK, but if he has AJx xxx QJxx 10xx my line works and yours doesn't. And if he has AJxx xxx QJx Txx, both lines work. Even if your line is better (which is debatable), that doesn't really justify RHM's condescending comment. So what have we missed?

I didn't make any statement about one line being better than the other.

[inquiry]

The discusion is going well, so I don't mean to untrack it... because this has not real bearing on how it is going. For the record, East dropped the QUEEN under the ACE at trick one. Supposedly denying the king. Doubt that affects anything, but it was available info I forgot to include in the original posting. We could imagine East jsut played some random club without affecting too much the discussion.

[rhm]

gnasher, on 2011-February-17, 10:59, said:

OK, but if he has AJx xxx QJxx 10xx my line works and yours doesn't. And if he has AJxx xxx QJx Txx, both lines work. Even if your line is better (which is debatable), that doesn't really justify RHM's condescending comment. So what have we missed?

Sorry, my comment was not meant to be condescending.

But you are wrong that your line works against AJx xxx QJxx 10xx. You claim:

Quote

East has to win that and play a diamond, to attack dummy's entry. I play low, West plays the jack, and I win in dummy. Now I ruff a club to hand and cash my trumps, strip-squeezing West.

The strip squeeze does not work against good defense, neither against AJx xxx QJxx 10xx nor against AJxx xxx QJx Txx for that matter. West will first discard a ♦ and then a high ♠, but keep on to his precious third ♣. Likewise against AJxx xxx QJx Txx West will discard two ♠s. Now what?

Second rogerclee is right that a low ♠ is right and this does also work against AJx xxx QJxx 10xx. However if West ducks, I admit that you have to take a decision whether to play for AJx xxx QJxx 10xx or AJxx xxx QJx Txx. In the first case you have to play the ♠10 if West ducks, in the latter case you need to play low from dummy. I think playing for AJxx xxx QJx Txx is less restrictive. Also it is not easy for West to duck when you play a low ♠ towards the ten with AJx. Many will play the jack without much thought.

This is a really tricky problem

Rainer Herrmann

[gnasher]

(Deleted- I see that Rainer had made the same point)

[inquiry]

Perhaps a low spade from dummy at trick 2 would have been a good play, but I went the way of least resistance and pulled trumps. Here were the hands....

Opening lead ♣3 (3rd/5th best... promises an honor is general.. East play ♣Q under the Ace.

I figured 3-3 spades was more likely than 3-3 diamonds (logic qiven above... if West had ♠ AK he is more likley to have started with one of those at trick one, East is unlikely to have both (not impossible of course,,, after all he still could have the club king).On three rounds of clubs, East discarded a club that "showed" a high spade value.

So, after three rounds of trumps, I exitedt a small spade. West plays the eight, and I covered in dummy, East won the king and shifted to a low diamond (not the nine). I played low and WEST an honor. Since West would not be able to attack spades or diamonds from his side, I decided to duck this diamond. Turns out a very good idea.

As you can see if West exits a spade, i will score my queen. If he exits the ♣K (or any club), I can ruff and run hearts to squeeze him. West, however, exited the ♦2 and I got to win my ♦ ten, but I am not out of the woods yet.

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On the first two turmps, both opponents discarded clubs. last trump, West is squeezed in spades and diamonds. If he throws a diamond, I can not go wrong. He threw the spade jack.

Now I can make by either discarding a diamond from dummy and ducking a spade or throw a spade from dummy, cash the diamond king (but not overtake) and exit a spade. But the situation isn;t all that clear. West could falsecard the ♠J from ♠AJ98 and diamonds are 3=3 (if West is ♠AJ84, his four would be to risky to keep).

I discarded a spade from dummy and lead the ♦K and west played his smaller diamond. Now I had to decide who was lying? East leading low from 9x is diamonds, West for returning low diamond from 7x after winning the jack AND discarding the spade JACK from AJ9. I finally went with restricted choice, West with AJ98 could have played the 9 or the 8 on the first round. Not sure what is best, but I really enjoyed the stepping stone nature of the ending when I ducked the ♦King in the dummy.

Anyway a fun hand, with a lot of entertaining options.

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what was the two clues? 1) I found it interesing, which increases chances it involves a squeeze, and the title, stepping out for steppingstone.

[whereagles]

I didn't read any of the discussion, but I think I'd place East with a spade honor, thus I think I'd run the diamond T at trick 4.