[gurgistan]

What is North's bid? I very strongly think it is 3N. <br><br>However, if it was to show 5cards+, no major and game points in clubs how would it be done. My notes only have 3♣ as being invitational. To sign off in clubs, North would 2N I would relay to clubs and he would pass. To show a game force in Spades, North would 2N, I would relay to 3♣ and North would bid 3♠. How does he show a game force in clubs? Can he even do so?


Quick note: we N/S are vulnerable (not that it makes any odds, just to be complete).

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[ArtK78]

A direct response of 3♣ shows values but is not forcing. If one wants to show a forcing hand with clubs, one must bid 2NT followed by 4♣. This has the obvious drawback of passing 3NT.

The answer to your question may come from asking the forum members the following question:

What do these sequences show:

(2♥) - x - (P):

3♥
2NT followed by 3♥
4♥
2NT followed by 4♥

[TWO4BRIDGE]

The "fast" ( or direct ) cuebid shows 0-3 cards other major ( ♠ ) and denies a ♥-stop:
(2♥) - X - ( p ) - 3♥

If partner can next bid 3NT and you feel you have a one-suited slamtry in ♣, you would pull 3NT to 4♣.

If you feel you just have a GF in ♣, you would just bid a "fast" 4♣:
( 2♥ ) - X - ( p ) - 4♣

[TWO4BRIDGE]

ArtK78, on 2011-February-16, 15:18, said:

A direct response of 3♣ shows values but is not forcing. If one wants to show a forcing hand with clubs, one must bid 2NT followed by 4♣. This has the obvious drawback of passing 3NT.

The answer to your question may come from asking the forum members the following question:

What do these sequences show:

(2♥) - x - (p):

3♥
2NT followed by 3♥
4♥
2NT followed by 4♥

The "slow" route is Stayman ( 4 cards ♠ ):
( 2♥ ) - X - ( P ) - 2NT!( Leb2 )

( p ) - ( 3C! forced) - ( p ) - ??
.......................................3♥= Stayman w/o a ♥-stop ( cuebid denies a stop )
.......................................4♣= 4 cards ♠ AND 6 cards ♣
.......................................4♥ = undefined

[gordontd]

You can't show three different strengths of hands with club suits below the level of 3NT.

As you suggest it seems best just to show a hand without a heart stop that wants to play in 3NT.

[gurgistan]

gordontd, on 2011-February-17, 02:32, said:

You can't show three different strengths of hands with club suits below the level of 3NT.

There can be no signoff in clubs for sure.

What about bidding 4C to show the game force as one poster suggested? Would we have to modify our hcp and/or length requirement for that?

[kenberg]

At the table my first call would be 4♣. If partner now bids 4♦, which I think is definitely possible, I would bid 4♠. If partner has a strong four card spade suit this make make. I simply let the opponents take the first three hearts, perhaps even tossing winners from the dummy, and then take my (I hope) ten tricks.

I have, sometimes to the consternation of my partners, bid 3NT w/o a heart stop but I wouldn't do so here. It could well be that we have a club slam while the opponents will take the first six tricks in no trump.


A 3♥ bid at my first turn has its attractions. The problem is that I often play this as good values with exactly four spades. If partner always had four spades for a double this would not be needed but reality says otherwise. Give a guy a 15 count with three good spades and short hearts. What is he supposed to do over 2♥? Most will double. Using 3♥ to sort out whether we indeed have an eight card fit is useful. Playing this way, if I, as fourth hand, jump to 4♠ in response to the double it will be on at least five cards.

Anyway, I have clubs and a good hand. Jumping to 4♣ probably shows clubs and a good hand. So that's what I do.

[gurgistan]

kenberg, on 2011-February-17, 07:12, said:

I have, sometimes to the consternation of my partners, bid 3NT w/o a heart stop but I wouldn't do so here.

I have some Lebensohl notes: http://www.bridge.pro.br/lebs.htm, which make 3N as standard in this spot.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

Here are some general Lebensohl-2 "rules" for Advancer ( the 2H/2S = weak-2M cases ):

3NT -- fast or slow -- ( always ) SHOWS a M-stop.

cuebid -- fast or slow -- ( always ) DENIES a M-stop

fast -- denies 4 cards in oM ( no Stayman )

slow -- shows 4 cards in oM ( Stayman )

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
So, here is an example where Advancer HAS 4oM ( Stayman) AND a M-stop:
( 2H ) - X - ( p ) - 2NT! ( Leb)
( p ) - 3C!( forced) - ( p ) - 3NT

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Our own Justin Lall ( J-LO GIC ) and Eugene Hung have a nice summary of Leb-2 .
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

The Leb-2 bids are different than for Lebensohl-1 ( Responser's bids over the DBL of "our" 1NT )

[Gerben42]

In my version of Lebensohl, 3NT always shows a stop. I am aware that this version is not standard but the version that has somehow made it to standard is horrible to explain and counterintuitive.

FWIW I am torn between 3♥ asking for stopper and 4♣ (invite to 5♣).

[aguahombre]

Gerben42, on 2011-February-17, 12:42, said:

FWIW I am torn between 3♥ asking for stopper and 4♣ (invite to 5♣).

I am torn between those 2 bids, also. But opposite MY pard's doubles, 4C is forcing, rather than invitational. Also, she doesn't double with one-suiters, so with a control in their suit and extra strength, she can pretend 4C was RKC for clubs.