[mgoetze]

Elianna, on 2011-January-06, 15:16, said:

First off, I notice that the people nominated are who people think are the best players (with perhaps minimal number of ongoing arguments, as there is one that is missing and that is the only reason I could find for his omission), but I don't understand why someone needs to be a good player to be a good moderator. Maybe to be a good responder to questions in the play/bidding question forums, but not to watch discussion and be able to deal with people in a rational manner that is professional and fair.

I did not nominate the people whom I considered to be the best bridge players on the forum (no offense, guys ), but rather those whose replies I always consider rational, level-headed and fair. I also excluded some people of whom I suspected that they would not be interested. I suspect there is a correlation between this property and bridge-playing ability.

Of course, people who don't post as much have not had as much opportunity to impress me with their level-headedness. I mean I could nominate Elianna, but even she has over 1000 posts.

Quote

The one change that I think should be taken seriously is a reorganization of the forums. I believe that this was brought up a long time ago (where's gwynn when you need him?) but with all these different (and overlapping) categories, it gets rather confusing where to post certain topics. Say you have a problem that involves taking inference from the bidding to plan play. Do you post this in SAYC, because it involves understanding the auction? Do you post it in interesting bridge hands? Do you post it in the Beginning/Intermediate forum? Or maybe in offline bridge because it happened offline?

In this reorganization I would love to see a pairing down of different forums, and better descriptions of what should go in each forum, so that an OP can make better decisions about where to place threads.

I would be willing to put effort into making a good suggestion... if only there were any hint that it might actually be considered...

[Elianna]

I wouldn't want to do it, but thank you. But yes, I think that someone like me or Helene or even Matt, or others would do a better job than at least one of the people mentioned at some point above in one of the various posts. And yes, I'm doing something that I decried, of publicly nominating people, but I'm not saying that these are the only people, just using them to make a point that personality is more important than bridge skills or perceived bridge skills.

Making suggestions about reorganization is really easy. Complimenting them are VERY HARD, because whole pages of threads would have to be moved, so someone would have to go through them, and decide what to do about it. I am not the kind of person that is normally averse to making "helpful suggestions", but as I am not willing to volunteer the numerous hours of work to implement them, I am hesitant to get upset when others don't want to do that work.

I also remember several years ago, when I volunteered to do something helpful on the forums. Dealing with certain *people* reminded me that my time is best spent in other ways.

mgoetze, on 2011-January-06, 15:32, said:

I did not nominate the people whom I considered to be the best bridge players on the forum (no offense, guys ), but rather those whose replies I always consider rational, level-headed and fair. I also excluded some people of whom I suspected that they would not be interested. I suspect there is a correlation between this property and bridge-playing ability.

Of course, people who don't post as much have not had as much opportunity to impress me with their level-headedness. I mean I could nominate Elianna, but even she has over 1000 posts.



I would be willing to put effort into making a good suggestion... if only there were any hint that it might actually be considered...

[matmat]

Oh. I didn't catch the whole nominating thing. Hmmm... I'd like to nominate santa, the easter bunny, the tooth fairy, happy, sleepy, doc, papa smurf, gargamel, and roger rabbit.

what were we nominating for, anyway?

[matmat]

On a more serious note, (and, having now read some of the B/I threads in question), I don't think it would be a terrible idea to bar certain members from posting in the B/I forum. I won't name any names, but with an obvious lack of tact, dubious bridge knowledge, and a very quick trigger on personal insults, I think we all know who they are ::hides::

[Antraxxx]

mgoetze, on 2011-January-06, 15:19, said:

I'll explain it to you. Today, Inquiry went out to of his way to delete a post I had made on Monday -snip-

Thanks. Ironically, that's another example of the "Meckwell would punt with gazilli" style of answer that's plaguing B/I. I think it's a good guideline to assume people aren't aware of everything that goes on in these boards, and to bother giving an answer in consideration for those of us still new to drawing inferences. If it's of any interest to you, Inquiry, I had no idea of whatever history you have with mgoetze and thought that part of your post was a sort of vague warning that my own posts are out of line, which was pretty baffling.

[cherdano]

I am not sure there is any sense in adding moderators unless there is clear consensus on what they would do.

Of course, Andy (gnasher) would be a great choice as a moderator if he was willing to do it.

[hotShot]

Since there is an "interesting bridge hands" forum, does that mean that hands posted to B/I or A/E are not interesting?

How should a beginner know that a problem is advanced and not just beyond his abilities?

Should a beginner playing SAYC post to he beginner forum or to the SAYC forum, what about a precision beginner?

There are other forums i know, where a separation makes sense, I don't think everything about the current structure makes sense discussing bridge.

Moving posts to other parts of the forum, is just a waste of time.

I would suggest that we come up with a better structure.

[hrothgar]

cherdano, on 2011-January-07, 09:03, said:

I am not sure there is any sense in adding moderators unless there is clear consensus on what they would do.

Hallelujah!!!

The biggest frustration at my current job are endless meetings arguing over implementation details before there is any agreement about end goals.

[JLOGIC]

I totally agree that the forum could use some restructuring, or at the very least there could be more active moderation to ensure that threads are posted in the right forum.

For starters, it is not valid to post threads in A/E just because you want advanced/experts to answer your question. Here is the description of A/E:

Forum designated for experienced and adept bridge players to discuss more advanced topics.

Let me be frank, it is not a crime to not be that good at bridge. But it is annoying if you want to discuss a more advanced topic and you have a bunch of n00bs posting n00b stuff cluttering up the thread. It is not your right to invade A/E becuase you feel that YOUR questions or YOUR comments are more important than everyone else, such that you can violate the forum description. And really, it is not the best way to get your questions answered, since you're likely to be flamed there which won't happen in B/I.

If you have a question that you want A/E to answer, you can post in B/I. Let's read its description:

For our novice to intermediate members to discuss issues and share advice (and for more skilled players to answer questions .

So the descriptions are pretty cut and dried.

I do not think we need more moderators, even if the current moderation team might be a little slow sometimes they do a great job, and adding in another mod risks a lot (if that mod is bad/power happy/whatever, it will take a LOT away from the forum imo). Be careful with that one.

[matmat]

JLOGIC, on 2011-January-07, 13:16, said:

Let me be frank, it is not a crime to not be that good at bridge. But it is annoying if you want to discuss a more advanced topic and you have a bunch of n00bs posting n00b stuff cluttering up the thread. It is not your right to invade A/E becuase you feel that YOUR questions or YOUR comments are more important than everyone else, such that you can violate the forum description. And really, it is not the best way to get your questions answered, since you're likely to be flamed there which won't happen in B/I.

Which shouldn't happen in the B/I, thought it still seems to.

I think I'd much rather post in the B/I forum and be told that my question is beyond the scope of the material intended to be there, have it answered by several internationalists (wanted to use that word) and feel like I posted a worthwhile problem that players much better than I am struggle with, than post in the A/E forum to be laughed, and not really get a proper response. This dilemma, BTW, is just another manifestation of the self-ranking inflation.

That said, I gotta start posting in the A/E forum more if n00b posts there annoy JLOGIC.

[Antraxxx]

I'm not sure when the discussion shifted to "adding mods". I thought it was just a matter of changing the policy they enforce. Even something as simple as PMing people telling them "hey, that post you made in B/I was really out of place" would probably solve the problem within a matter of weeks.

[TimG]

JLOGIC, on 2011-January-07, 13:16, said:

I do not think we need more moderators, even if the current moderation team might be a little slow, sometimes they do a great job,...

JLOGIC, on 2011-January-07, 13:16, said:

I do not think we need more moderators, even if the current moderation team might be a little slow sometimes, they do a great job,...

Which comma has been added in the right place?

[FrancesHinden]

A number of people have said that they don't really notice what the forum structure is, they just look at 'new posts' or whatever.
I think that's part of the problem.

Personally, I write completely differently depending on which forum a question is posted to.
In the B/I forum I (try to) write clear and detailed answers to easy questions and explain the reasoning behind why some 'standards' are the way they are.
In other forums I often just ignore questions I think are not suitable for the subject matter of the forum, and I can be quite abrupt to people. If someone asks a question about how to bid a hand posted in the "SAYC and 2/1" forum I will answer in that context (as far as I can, which is not very for when it comes to SA). If someone asks a question in the 'non-natural' systems forum I might suggest non-standard treatments which I think work well, or might work well.

I think the point of having separate forums - rather than some big mishmash - is it allows responders to put replies in context which should be good for everyone.

[JLOGIC]

TimG, on 2011-January-07, 13:52, said:

Which comma has been added in the right place?

The 2nd.

I totally agree with posting completely differently in b/i than elsewhere.

Obv I am pretty harsh sometimes (usually) but I don't think I ever am in b/i.

[Phil]

JLOGIC, on 2011-January-07, 13:16, said:

But it is annoying if you want to discuss a more advanced topic and you have a bunch of n00bs posting n00b stuff cluttering up the thread.

+1 even if I come off as the occasional n00b.

[mgoetze]

Necroing my thread because I feel moderation manpower has been sorely missing this month.

[barmar]

mgoetze, on 2012-March-30, 00:01, said:

Necroing my thread because I feel moderation manpower has been sorely missing this month.

Just because we haven't yet censored the guy you're having a catfight with? Or is there a bigger problem?

I just removed a post (from someone else) that called someone an f-ing idiot. Better?

[mgoetze]

barmar, on 2012-March-30, 09:09, said:

Just because we haven't yet censored the guy you're having a catfight with? Or is there a bigger problem?

I think in general the N/B forum needs more care. But yes, that one person also deserves more moderator attention.

Of course it may be that the N/B forum concept is doomed to fail anyhow and a StackExchange type site would be much better. I dunno. But I think more moderation would at least give it a chance.

[barmar]

I don't read the N/B, I/A, or E forums. So I've not been very active in moderating them, because I can't tell how far from the norm a particular post is; I've been leaving them for Ben to deal with. The posts that have been reported in your squabble seem typical for online behavior, based on my 30 years of Internet experience -- a bit rude, but not vulgar. As I said in another thread, that's the nature of the online world, you need a thicker skin. Trolls can be annoying, but I'm not sure it rises to the level requiring censorship.

I was conflicted when I removed the post in the Expert forum. It used excessive language, but then it followed it with bridge material directly on topic. I could have just edited out the epithet, but don't like the idea of rewriting others' posts.

[mgoetze]

barmar, on 2012-March-30, 10:34, said:

As I said in another thread, that's the nature of the online world, you need a thicker skin.

Uhm let's make it clear that I was not the one reporting any of those posts. On the contrary I often find them mildly amusing.