upside down count defender explains agreement as stnd
#1
Posted 2010-December-11, 13:02
In the middle of the hand, I inquire of my right hand opponent if their partnership is playing standard or upside down count. She responds, "standard." I find out shortly after that my left-hand opp had three in the suit and not the expected 2.
As a result I go down three in a contract that most of the field is in down 2.
I say to my right hand opponent, "Then you weren't play standard count?" She says, "Well, I play standard count." (note the emphasis on the "I".) Her partner speaks up and says, "I thought we agreed when we started to play both upside down count and attitude." She says, "I have upside down attitude and standard count on my card." I look at her card, and I see that she does. I ask to look at LHO's card and he also has upside down attitude and standard count marked.
This pair has already played 20 hands, and they are both flight A players.
How would you rule as the director?
#2
Posted 2010-December-11, 13:13
As for tv, screw it. You aren't missing anything. -- Ken Berg
I have come to realise it is futile to expect or hope a regular club game will be run in accordance with the laws. -- Jillybean
#3
Posted 2010-December-11, 17:08
The director said to score it up as was and that he would look at the hand after the game. He did adjust to 3 hts down 2.
I don't think there was a conversation with either of the opponents.
In any case, I was satisfied that we received the score we deserved (and considerably much better than the 0 that was initially recorded)!
#4
Posted 2010-December-11, 21:05
blackshoe, on 2010-December-11, 13:13, said:
Quite right! Surprised that the director did not issue a warning at all to the offenders.
Unless explicitly stated, none of my views here can be taken to represent SCBA or any other organizations.
#5
Posted 2010-December-11, 21:11
movingon, on 2010-December-11, 13:02, said:
It appears that you were given the correct explanation of their partnership agreement. Where is the MI?
#6
Posted 2010-December-11, 23:42
Defenders are allowed to falsecard, after all.
As for tv, screw it. You aren't missing anything. -- Ken Berg
I have come to realise it is futile to expect or hope a regular club game will be run in accordance with the laws. -- Jillybean
#7
Posted 2010-December-12, 08:37
blackshoe, on 2010-December-11, 23:42, said:
Because a defender did not give honest count. Whether this was an intentional deception, a case of forgetting (or misunderstanding) the agreement, or of just not giving count, doesn't matter.
BTW, isn't it pretty rare that an expert gives useful count information to declarer by giving count in a suit? If an expert realizes that there is a two-way finesse (or some such), the expert defender is not going to volunteer count information. In other words, in all but situations where the defenders obviously need to know count (as for cashing out or holding up), Flight A defenders aren't giving count.
#8
Posted 2010-December-12, 13:36
Are "Flight A" and "expert" synonymous?
As for tv, screw it. You aren't missing anything. -- Ken Berg
I have come to realise it is futile to expect or hope a regular club game will be run in accordance with the laws. -- Jillybean
#9
Posted 2010-December-13, 13:04
#10
Posted 2010-December-13, 15:17
Merseyside England UK
EBL TD
Currently at home
Visiting IBLF from time to time
<webjak666@gmail.com>
#11
Posted 2010-December-13, 15:28
Quote
Of course this is wrong: the TD should find out what is going on.
Let us have another look at the OP and see what happened.
First, the SCs. They both said 'upside down attitude and standard count'. That suggests they have an agreement to play standard count and later posts have assumed this, so suggesting no MI.
But what did LHO say?
Quote
Now, the problem with just assuming they are playing standard count because of the SCs is that LHO certainly is not. So, what is the agreement?
Ok, we ask who filled in LHO's SC? If RHO then I think they do not have an agreement to play standard count. But if LHO filled in his own SC I would ask him why he did and then plays something else.
I am not sure of the answer to this one, but one thing I am sure of: it needed investigation by the TD.
Merseyside England UK
EBL TD
Currently at home
Visiting IBLF from time to time
<webjak666@gmail.com>
#12
Posted 2010-December-13, 18:15
bluejak, on 2010-December-13, 15:28, said:
Presumably because since filling in the card he has misremembered what he wrote on it. Doesn't that sort of thing happen all the time?
Anyway, I disagree with the first bit. I think that LHO having read the card would be enough to say they have an agreement to play it. Or do I have to leave a space at the bottom of my (word-processed) convention cards for my partners to sign "I have read this document and agree to play the methods described therein"?
#13
Posted 2010-December-13, 20:29
Merseyside England UK
EBL TD
Currently at home
Visiting IBLF from time to time
<webjak666@gmail.com>