[kgr]

IMP's:

---

DBL was Support.
Do you Pass/6D...?
(Would you bid be the same if LHO had bid 2S iso 3S?)

[kenberg]

Yes, I would bid 6D.
Downside:
Lousy trump
AK of spades are somewhat wasted values.
Upside:
My support double certainly did not promise the AK of hearts.
The AK of spades will be two tricks, even if they are opposite a void.


I suppose it might depend some on what partner's options were. No doubt 4D over a 2S bid would be very strong. Over the given 3S bid I am not so sure what I would make of 4D and partner might not be sure either. But I think that if partner expects 5D to make, when holding four hearts to the Q, then my guess is that 6D will be, at worst, on a 2-2 diamond split.

So: On the given auction I definitely bid 6D. On the alternative where lho bid only 2S, I would give some thought to the fact that partner bid 5D rather than 4D, but I think that I still bid 6.

Added:
Upon reflection, perhaps 4D over a hypothetical 2S is non-forcing, as gwnn says. It would probably be a cold day in Iceland when I actually passed it.

This post has been edited by kenberg: 2010-November-29, 08:30

[gwnn]

I like ken's post above and I will not try to write a better one (but 4♦ over 2♠ sounds nonforcing to me!). I will bid 6. Partner should have 5 or 6 diamonds so it's hard to see diamonds losing two tricks.

[pooltuna]

 kgr, on 2010-November-29, 02:19, said:

IMP's:

---

DBL was Support.
Do you Pass/6D...?
(Would you bid be the same if LHO had bid 2S iso 3S?)

If I would bid the same way with deuces replacing the ♥K and the ♣KJ then surely 6♦ is a WTP

[Free]

I don't think ♠AK are lost values per se. It's likely partner has a ♠ void, so if partner has ♥xxxx you might use ♠AK to discard 2 ♥s.

[kenberg]

I suppose that if partner has, say, -/QJxx/AKxxx/AQxx I would rather be in 6NT when the diamonds split 4-0. And partner's diamonds could be AQxxx.

There are other interesting possibilities to speculate on.

But I still just bid 6D. Everyone at the table has something to bid, so I suppose there is some substantial shape lurking somewhere. If I lose two trump tricks, that's just too bad.

[mike gill]

I don't think this is a clear cut slam bid at all - in fact I think I would pass. Partner does not need the world's fair to bid game at IMPs - 4♦ isn't invitational so he could easily be stretching - he probably thinks a spade void and 5-6 diamonds is really good. I think - xxxx QJT9xx AQx is a clear 5♦ bid and that's not even giving him anything wasted in hearts (which he certainly could have). - QJxx KQJxxx Qxx is essentially cold for game opposite Qxxx Kxx Axxx Kx and that's a balanced 12 count with a wasted Q and only one keycard (and his dQJ are likely wasted) - surely partner can't just bid 4♦ with this hand at IMPs. I think partner could even have less than these two hands - you are marked with 4+ diamonds on the auction so he knows it's a great fit if he has 6 of them. He could have bid 4♠ if he wanted to try for slam.

If LHO had bid 2♠ instead of 3, and partner had leapt to 5♦ I would feel even more strongly about passing. Now he had a zillion options to try for contracts higher than 5♦ and didn't take any of them - I think he could still have any of the hands I gave above - it's not winning IMP bridge to just invite with hands that are cold for game opposite a normal balanced minimum. If he has - QTxx AKxxxx Qxx now he can clearly bid 3♠ then pull 3N to 4♦ as a slam try (I think he should bid 4♠ over 3♠ with this hand)

[kgr]

 mike gill, on 2010-November-29, 11:37, said:

you are marked with 4+ diamonds on the auction

I noticed that I forgot to say that we open 5542, so yes: 4+Diamonds

[mikeh]

We have a serious problem here in that usually one could argue that partner can't have a hand that makes slam cold because he didn't bid 4♠. But it is far from clear that he could bid 4♠ with primary diamonds and only 4 hearts.....wouldn't 4♠ suggest slam interest in the only fit we've yet established...hearts?

Mikegill's post seemed attractive to me until I started thinking about what options partner had with a real gf and 0=4=5=4 or 0=4=6=3. And then I started thinking about how he should bid over 3♠ with void QJxxxx AKxx Qxx....preempts work, and this one has us guessing. On the glass half-empty approach...pass....otherwise bid. I admit at the table I often talk myself into passing.

But in the forum, I'll pay to void QJxx KQJxxx Qxx. I won't pay, the other way, to void xxxx AKJxxx Qxx.

So 6♦ it is, but I won't redouble

[Siegmund]

You can put me down for pass. The SAK may eliminate a heart loser in partner's hand, but they won't do a thing for a club loser unless he's 0-4-7-2, and the 1S bidder is going to have something to go along with his SQJ - losing CA and a diamond seems more likely than not to me. And the matchpoint-itis excuse of catching up to 3NT doesn't apply at IMPs.

If it had been a leap to 5D over 2S I would consider pass absolutely clearcut, with partner having a variety of ways to explore, Over 3S his options are a bit cramped.

[mike gill]

A few comments:

1) Actually we are marked with 4+ diamonds even if playing 5533 since we have at most 4-3 majors, and standard is to open 1c with 3-3.
2) I think 4♠ has to be a general slam try with spade control over 3♠. In fact, arguably maybe 5♥ should be general invite to 6 with hearts and 4♠ should suggest that maybe hearts aren't trumps. Remember even if he's 5-4 in the reds diamonds may be better if I have a real suit (since spade ruffs will be in the short trump hand). I could see playing 5♥ is looking for a spade control and 4♠ is either a diamond slam try or a heart slam try with a control (if you then bid 5♥, but with no agreements I think it should be a general slam try.
3) Remember that the stronger partner's hand is in HCP, the more shape the opponents are likely to have to be bidding a lot. They are off the AK of their trump suit after all. Wouldn't be a shocker to find that partner has KQxxxx of diamonds and we still have two losers.

[kgr]

---

I didn't make this. -2 was the result.

[the hog]

I would certainly bid 6D with your hand - you have so much more than you have promised. I think your partner's 5D bid was an overbid. I would have bid 4D and now you have an easy raise to 5.

[andy_h]

Maybe not so popular but I think a good treatment to have is 4m (opener's opened minor) by responder is (game) forcing in these type of auctions. With a weak hand responder could have raised the minor on the first round, with an invitational hand responder can jump to game and so you're left with slam interest hands.

[kenberg]

kgr, thanks for posting the actual hand. I always like to see how it actually went. I am not so sure that I would now pass 5D, but I still like to see it.