[fred]

mike777, on 2010-November-19, 21:37, said:

Ihave no idea how to start or find a teamgame online with web version. Confusion.


AFter much confusion and trying I did get a message.......


no tg pending whatever.. exhausting.

1. Log in
2. Click "list all tables"
3. Click "team matches"

If you want to start a team match, click "create team match" (a button near the bottom).

If you want to kibitz a team match that is already running click "running" (a button near the top).

One nice thing about the web-client is that you do not have to specify all 8 players when you create a team match. You can leave some of the names blank and the team match will be created with empty seats which other web-client users will then be able to click on - that results in the team match host receiving a "permission to sit" request.

The "pending" and "running" buttons at the top toggle between listing team matches with empty seats and listing team matches that are already running.

Unfortuantely not very many people seem to be using the empty seats thing yet so it sometimes takes a while for a team match to get off the ground unless you specify all 8 players (as is necessary in the Windows client). At some point we will make it possible for the hosts of team match with empty seats to "advertise" to a larger potential audience of players (ie players who do not happen to be looking at the list of pending team matches).

Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
www.bridgebase.com

[1eyedjack]

fred, on 2010-November-20, 09:57, said:

1. Log in
2. Click "list all tables"
3. Click "team matches"

If you want to start a team match, click "create team match" (a button near the bottom).

If you want to kibitz a team match that is already running click "running" (a button near the top).

One nice thing about the web-client is that you do not have to specify all 8 players when you create a team match. You can leave some of the names blank and the team match will be created with empty seats which other web-client users will then be able to click on - that results in the team match host receiving a "permission to sit" request.

The "pending" and "running" buttons at the top toggle between listing team matches with empty seats and listing team matches that are already running.

Unfortuantely not very many people seem to be using the empty seats thing yet so it sometimes takes a while for a team match to get off the ground unless you specify all 8 players (as is necessary in the Windows client). At some point we will make it possible for the hosts of team match with empty seats to "advertise" to a larger potential audience of players (ie players who do not happen to be looking at the list of pending team matches).

Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
www.bridgebase.com

I submit that it is just possible that this facility might be more used if it is more commonly known about. One way of achieving that might be to put the option to create such an event in a more logical place in the interface:
http://www.bridgebas...post__p__492573

[mgoetze]

I've been giving the web client another try. It still sucks for trying to find a pickup game in the MBC, but I'm not doing that so often nowadays. In general, the Windows client feels much more responsive. Some of the new features do look useful, though.

I have some questions about the hand editor. First of all, when I generate some hands and save them to a folder, then go to show that folder, it is entirely unpredictable for me in which order they will be listed - is there a system? Secondly, are the dealer and vulnerability saved in a hand relevant when using the hands for a tournament/team match? Thirdly, if I create a team match and choose a folder with more boards than are needed, which boards will be used?

What's missing is a feature to just generate a set of randomly-dealt boards 1-8/1-12/whatever and save them to a folder, for use in a tournament/team match.

Oh and the team matches and especially the button to create one are too hard to find.

[zenko]

Hi,

The web environment bring the worst out of many, so first thank you for trying to help the game be more civilized. Regarding completion rate I have 3 questions:

1) my board completion rate seems too high (100%), since I do recall sometimes not finishing a hand due to connection issue, joining a tourney and such. On another hand my tourney completion rate (93%) seems too low, once in a blue moon I do not complete a tourney because lost connection and by the time I get back the sub is already in my seat, but thats no more than 1 in 50 for sure. I wonder is it because I sometimes play a team match that gets shut down in the middle? That seems unlikely since the hands played up to that point are not even available to look up later.

2) What happens if you get kicked out of a team game/table, for whatever reason? Does that count against your completion rate?

3) When hosting a table what is a reasonably high completion rate setting to use? I.e. what is a average/median completion rate? Also I would suggest posting somewhere, at least periodically, the overall statistics, for this and many other reasons. For example those who are below average might that way get shamed into changing their ways, when they realize that "everybody is doing it" rationalization for behaving badly does not really hold true.

[fred]

mgoetze, on 2010-November-22, 12:27, said:

I've been giving the web client another try. It still sucks for trying to find a pickup game in the MBC, but I'm not doing that so often nowadays. In general, the Windows client feels much more responsive. Some of the new features do look useful, though.

I suggest you try "Help me find a game", "Play - interesting tables". This is a more effective way of finding an appropriate table for a pickup game than scrolling through a list of 1000+ tables regardless of whether or not that list updates itself automatically.

Quote

I have some questions about the hand editor. First of all, when I generate some hands and save them to a folder, then go to show that folder, it is entirely unpredictable for me in which order they will be listed - is there a system?

In theory the hands will appear in the order that they were saved.

Quote

Secondly, are the dealer and vulnerability saved in a hand relevant when using the hands for a tournament/team match?

No.

Quote

Thirdly, if I create a team match and choose a folder with more boards than are needed, which boards will be used?

If you specify (say) 10 boards then the first 10 boards in the folder will be used (with the dealer and vulnerability of these boards being ignored - the match will always start with board 1, North deals with none vul, and follow the standard progression).

Quote

What's missing is a feature to just generate a set of randomly-dealt boards 1-8/1-12/whatever and save them to a folder, for use in a tournament/team match.

The reason we have not done anything like this (or automatic deal-logging to a folder) yet is out of concern that the database we use to save hands will get overwhelmed. I am sure we will eventually find a way to address these issues.

Quote

Oh and the team matches and especially the button to create one are too hard to find.

You know I hear that a lot, but I really don't understand it - the path to this button and its location are almost identical in the Windows and web-clients. If you think of "show all tables" in the web-client to being the equivalent to "click to play or watch bridge" in the Windows client, I suspect you will see what I mean.

By the way, it is not as if it is necessarily a smart idea to make the "create team match" button more salient. Creating a team match entails certain responsibilities that I suspect the average BBO member is either unaware of or is not prepared to accept. Experienced and responsible BBO members who are interested in creating a team match (who no doubt represent far less than 1% of our users) will figure out how to do it or will ask if they need help.

Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
www.bridgebase.com

[fred]

zenko, on 2010-November-22, 12:54, said:

Hi,

The web environment bring the worst out of many, so first thank you for trying to help the game be more civilized. Regarding completion rate I have 3 questions:

1) my board completion rate seems too high (100%), since I do recall sometimes not finishing a hand due to connection issue, joining a tourney and such. On another hand my tourney completion rate (93%) seems too low, once in a blue moon I do not complete a tourney because lost connection and by the time I get back the sub is already in my seat, but thats no more than 1 in 50 for sure. I wonder is it because I sometimes play a team match that gets shut down in the middle? That seems unlikely since the hands played up to that point are not even available to look up later.

2) What happens if you get kicked out of a team game/table, for whatever reason? Does that count against your completion rate?

3) When hosting a table what is a reasonably high completion rate setting to use? I.e. what is a average/median completion rate? Also I would suggest posting somewhere, at least periodically, the overall statistics, for this and many other reasons. For example those who are below average might that way get shamed into changing their ways, when they realize that "everybody is doing it" rationalization for behaving badly does not really hold true.

Uday might be prepared to provide you with some more information, but I am not really in a position to answer these questions for a few reasons:

- Uday is the one that wrote the code in this area
- Our attitude so far has been to keep most of these details to ourselves
- It is quite likely that the formulas we use will be refined before too long

All I will say for now is that of course our eventual goal is make things work as fairly as possible. No doubt there are some unfair aspects to our initial attempts, but both Uday and I regularly read posts in the "Suggestions for the software" Forum so your concerns in this area will not be ignored. For now, if you make a reasonable effort to behave yourself then you shouldn't have any problems. You definitely shouldn't lose any sleep if you completion rates drop a little below 100%.

Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
www.bridgebase.com

[mgoetze]

Hi Fred,

fred, on 2010-November-22, 14:15, said:

I suggest you try "Help me find a game", "Play - interesting tables". This is a more effective way of finding an appropriate table for a pickup game than scrolling through a list of 1000+ tables regardless of whether or not that list updates itself automatically.

Could you please tell me what sort of measures are in place to ensure that I get an appropriate table? I find scrolling through a list of instantly-updating tables with immediately available profiles effective because I have carefully honed my skills to recognize, with one glance, the kind of profile which a reasonably compatible partner might create.

Quote

In theory the hands will appear in the order that they were saved.

It seems to me that when I delete a deal from a folder, there will be an empty "slot" somewhere in the middle which I can't see but which will get filled up with the next deal. For example, I create a fresh folder and add deals "a", "b" and "c". I view the folder (the deals are in order) and delete "b". Now I add deals "d" and "e". I look at the folder again and see the order "a", "d", "c", "e".

Thanks for answering the other questions. I agree that creating a team match should possibly not be all too easy. Joining one should be easier though (somewhere under "Help me find a game").

Regards,
Michael

PS I addressed a post to you in the "Is FD the way forward?" thread and would appreciate a short reply there.

[mgoetze]

fred, on 2010-November-22, 14:25, said:

Uday might be prepared to provide you with some more information, but I am not really in a position to answer these questions for a few reasons:

He has already done so at http://www.bridgebas...post__p__510955

[fred]

mgoetze, on 2010-November-22, 14:45, said:

Hi Fred,



Could you please tell me what sort of measures are in place to ensure that I get an appropriate table? I find scrolling through a list of instantly-updating tables with immediately available profiles effective because I have carefully honed my skills to recognize, with one glance, the kind of profile which a reasonably compatible partner might create.



It seems to me that when I delete a deal from a folder, there will be an empty "slot" somewhere in the middle which I can't see but which will get filled up with the next deal. For example, I create a fresh folder and add deals "a", "b" and "c". I view the folder (the deals are in order) and delete "b". Now I add deals "d" and "e". I look at the folder again and see the order "a", "d", "c", "e".

Thanks for answering the other questions. I agree that creating a team match should possibly not be all too easy. Joining one should be easier though (somewhere under "Help me find a game").

Regards,
Michael

PS I addressed a post to you in the "Is FD the way forward?" thread and would appreciate a short reply there.

You could easily be right about the "slot" issue. Thanks for reporting it - I will take a look after I get home from the upcoming ACBL NABC in Orlando (I am leaving early tomorrow morning and I am unlikely to be able to pay much attention to either Forums or e-mail during the next 2 weeks).

I can't find the FD question you are referring to, but if you don't mind repeating the question here (and if you can do so on Monday) I will try to answer before I go to Orlando.

Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
www.bridgebase.com

[fred]

mgoetze, on 2010-November-22, 14:45, said:

Could you please tell me what sort of measures are in place to ensure that I get an appropriate table? I find scrolling through a list of instantly-updating tables with immediately available profiles effective because I have carefully honed my skills to recognize, with one glance, the kind of profile which a reasonably compatible partner might create.

Sorry - missed this question.

We take a variety of factors into account (for example: friends, country, and language). How exactly we combine these into a score for a given table is not something I am in a position to disclose (for similar reasons to those I just gave for not explaining our formulas for the new statistics). Early indications are that a lot of people are using this facility and this makes it more likely that we will make an effort to improve the algorithm sooner rather than later.

You may be interested in the "advanced option" for "show profile upon mouse over".

Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
www.bridgebase.com

[mgoetze]

fred, on 2010-November-22, 14:55, said:

I can't find the FD question you are referring to, but if you don't mind repeating the question here (and if you can do so on Monday) I will try to answer before I go to Orlando.

It wasn't so much a question as a plea. Here is the direct link: http://www.bridgebas...post__p__510166

fred, on 2010-November-22, 15:05, said:

We take a variety of factors into account (for example: friends, country, and language). How exactly we combine these into a score for a given table is not something I am in a position to disclose (for similar reasons to those I just gave for not explaining our formulas for the new statistics). Early indications are that a lot of people are using this facility and this makes it more likely that we will make an effort to improve the algorithm sooner rather than later.

You may be interested in the "advanced option" for "show profile upon mouse over".

Maybe I'll try it, I'm not quite convinced though. For instance, I come from Germany, but I prefer to play Polish or American type systems rather than German standard.

The "show profile upon mouse over" still has the disadvantage of a delay in loading the profile. I suspect this does not impact you as much because your network packets don't need to cross the atlantic ocean twice in order to communicate with the BBO server. But this delay often makes the difference between being able to grab the seat and someone else getting there first.

Anyway, I guess I can just use the Windows client when I'm looking for a pickup game - as I said that doesn't happen quite so often nowadays.

[hotShot]

When I use the Windows Client and my partner turns red, I can get a sub without bothering the TD.

How do I do that using the Web-Client?

[bluetooth]

I have a suggestion here:

Could we add a feature in the web-client (My BBO->Hands and results->Recent tournaments) to download a team match as a single LIN file? I don't think it is difficult to realize it.

Consider the windows-client. It can automatically save a 8-board team match in a SINGLE LIN file.

Or, if it is difficult to add this feature in the web-client, could we add this feature in the website (http://www.bridgebas...hands/index.php)?

Best regards,
bluetooth

[hotShot]

How do I see the kibs at my table using he WEB version?

[mgoetze]

hotShot, on 2010-November-25, 16:07, said:

How do I see the kibs at my table using he WEB version?

On the right-hand side, choose "Who's Online" in the vertical tab list and then "Kibitzers" in the horizontal tab list.

[hotShot]

mgoetze, on 2010-November-25, 16:11, said:

On the right-hand side, choose "Who's Online" in the vertical tab list and then "Kibitzers" in the horizontal tab list.

Thanks! It will take a lot of getting used to

[FM75]

Please, in the next version, fix the Flash text input areas to work in the standard Windows/Mac way with respect to clipboard operations. I am pretty sure they worked this way in some previous versions.

Now you have to select, right click, choose copy to copy text. Then click in new text input, right click and choose paste.

It even seems to use a "different clipboard".

Much better would be Ctrl-C (Command C), to copy, and Ctrl-V, (Command V) to paste, and Ctrl-X (Command X) to delete. Where Command is the "Apple" key.

[mgoetze]

I'm playing a barometer BAM team match right now and the order of the boards under My Results - My Table is messed up. The unplayed boards stay at the bottom but as soon as I finish a board it wanders to a random spot in the list, i.e. we've played 6 boards and the order is 4 6 2 3 5 1 7 8 9 10, then we finish #7 and it becomes 4 7 6 2 3 5 1 8 9 10. Other table results are in correct order and switching back and forth changes nothing, nor does checking other tabs like Who's online or Director.

Edit: Final oder after the tournament: 4 7 6 10 2 3 9 5 8 1

[fred]

mgoetze, on 2010-December-13, 20:45, said:

I'm playing a barometer BAM team match right now and the order of the boards under My Results - My Table is messed up. The unplayed boards stay at the bottom but as soon as I finish a board it wanders to a random spot in the list, i.e. we've played 6 boards and the order is 4 6 2 3 5 1 7 8 9 10, then we finish #7 and it becomes 4 7 6 2 3 5 1 8 9 10. Other table results are in correct order and switching back and forth changes nothing, nor does checking other tabs like Who's online or Director.

Probably you clicked the heading of one of the columns. The list will then be sorted according to the contents of that column.

Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
www.bridgebase.com

[mgoetze]

fred, on 2010-December-13, 20:56, said:

Probably you clicked the heading of one of the columns. The list will then be sorted according to the contents of that column.

Oh, I didn't realize that. Yes, clicking on # sorts it as usual.

PS Black on Dark Green is not very conspicuous.