[StevenG]

FWIW, if forced to play out a bunch of cards I believe to be equal and winning, I always play from the top, and I do my best to ensure that my partners do the same. I have seen too many accidents when they don't.

[bluejak]

NickRW, on Jan 24 2010, 05:22 PM, said:

Speaking as a player, unless my hand is high and I'm sure that it is, I never just table the hand with a "my hand is high".  If something has to be drawn, then I will table it one card at a time, saying "this, which draws the last club, then this, this, this", precisely because you get a***hole defenders who want to be given free tricks, TDs that pander to them and a set of rules that permit such rubbish.

It's an approach, of course, but the trouble with this sort of remark meant to inflame people is that it is just as reasonable [or in my view, unreasonable] to say:

Quote

Speaking as a player, I believe that one should never allow bad claims, precisely because you get a***hole declarers who cannot be bothered to claim accurately, want to be given free tricks, TDs that pander to them and a set of rules that permit such rubbish.

[NickRW]

bluejak, on Jan 25 2010, 01:22 AM, said:

It's an approach, of course, but the trouble with this sort of remark meant to inflame people is that it is just as reasonable [or in my view, unreasonable] to say:

IMO the two statements are only logically equivalent - in real life I find the law too helpful to the non claiming side to the extent that many people never claim precisely for that reason, afraid that they'll get an adverse ruling when they would have done better playing it out - which, IMO, does not really help the game.

If you think that is inflamatory, fine. It is certainly true that I don't find the current law a thing of beauty.

Nick

[blackshoe]

If you state clearly your line of play when claiming, the problem of an adverse ruling because of a flawed line of play statement is certainly mitigated, and my well disappear entirely. People who don't claim because they fear an adverse ruling because they claimed are deluding themselves.

[Chris3875]

Well said blackshoe. An opponent in a club contract claimed against me on Saturday, holding KQ of clubs (all small diamonds in dummy) and the K of spades. I had the T8 of clubs and J of spades - but unfortunately for him my p was on lead and led the Ace of hearts - then he complained to the Director that I hadn't allowed him to make a line of play (WHAT LINE OF PLAY?) but called the Director immediately he said "rest are mine".

[blackshoe]

Well, you should probably have let him state a line, if he wished to do so, but on that lie of the cards, your side is guaranteed a trick.

[iviehoff]

Chris3875, on Jan 25 2010, 05:51 AM, said:

then he complained to the Director that I hadn't allowed him to make a line of play

You do have to give a claimer reasonable opportunity to make a statement of claim. If there is uncertainty as to whether a claim statement, or more of it, might be forthcoming, I will say "is that your complete statement of claim?" before calling the director. Sometimes this avoids a director call: some players do respond "I can see I've forgotten about x, I'd better give you a trick then".

[shyams]

blackshoe, on Jan 25 2010, 02:57 AM, said:

If you state clearly your line of play when claiming, the problem of an adverse ruling because of a flawed line of play statement is certainly mitigated, and my well disappear entirely. People who don't claim because they fear an adverse ruling because they claimed are deluding themselves.

I have seen many people who play all 13 tricks on nearly every hand.

And I do not mean in a robot BBO game. This is real life, and also online on BBO.

I also know players/friends who are decent (stronger than me) at bridge who will not claim; they hesitate to explain but I think it could be a case of "once bitten, twice shy"

[Chris3875]

It looks as though I may have to stand corrected - but when opponent shows his hand and says "rest are mine" and I don't agree, I think that play ceases from that point and Director needs to make the decision.

When I queried my opponent on Saturday he said he had the top 2 trumps and the best spade - which was TRUE - but he didn't factor in that my p was on lead.

[NickRW]

shyams, on Jan 25 2010, 10:08 AM, said:

I have seen many people who play all 13 tricks on nearly every hand.

And I do not mean in a robot BBO game. This is real life, and also online on BBO.

I also know players/friends who are decent (stronger than me) at bridge who will not claim; they hesitate to explain but I think it could be a case of "once bitten, twice shy"

Exactly.

The laws, IMO, are written for the true tournament players who play under the direction of experienced, trained and non playing TDs. What effect they have on the club game when it is Aunt Maud at the helm with a possibly untrained, playing TD who is doing the best he/she can is not really considered.

Nick

[lamford]

shyams, on Jan 25 2010, 05:08 AM, said:

I also know players/friends who are decent (stronger than me) at bridge who will not claim; they hesitate to explain but I think it could be a case of "once bitten, twice shy"

I also know players/friends who are indecent (hopeless in fact) at bridge who do claim; they benefit enormously in that they now avoid the irrational declarer play that they would almost certainly have perpetrated.

If they ask me how they should claim, I reply "Silently. Any statement you make may be taken down and used in evidence against you."

[bluejak]

NickRW, on Jan 25 2010, 04:33 PM, said:

The laws, IMO, are written for the true tournament players who play under the direction of experienced, trained and non playing TDs.  What effect they have on the club game when it is Aunt Maud at the helm with a possibly untrained, playing TD who is doing the best he/she can is not really considered.

I think this is demonstrably false. Tournament players make much more casual claims than Aunt Maud, who, if she ever claims, will have a completely certain claim. Any lesser player who claims will be much more careful and will just about never have anything wrong.

[richlp]

I haven't read the entire thread but if I were the declarer I would be losing the club.

Assuming I have all winners (I almost never claim without all winners) my claiming "sytle" in this hand would be "High Club" and face my hand.

If I didn't state "High Club" with the claim, it means I miscounted the suit and, were I playing it out, would have said "Club"