[Dirk Kuijt]

Scoring: IMP

---

I ended in 4♠, on a auction that was not a thing of beauty.

FWIW, Deep Finesse said, on the full deal that 4♥ could be made, as could 4♠, but only from the short side.

[P_Marlowe]

We would end up in 3NT.

Wont make after a club lead.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[jdonn]

1♦ 1♠
1NT 2♦
2♥ 3NT
or whatever new minor forcing type of system you play.

I expect to have lots of company!

[jonottawa]

What Josh said.

This would be a better problem if the problem were to construct the full hand such that it only makes 4♠ from the short side.

[Cyberyeti]

I've seen people open the S hand a weak no trump, at which point 4♠ by the short hand is not impossible.

Our auction (weak no trump) would be:

1♦-1♠
2♦-2♥(relay)
3♥(better than might be 4♥-5+♦)-3♠(5th one, do we want to play 4♠ in a 5-2, clubs probably not great)
4♠

[Fluffy]

I am also with Josh, obviously 2♦ rebid can works sometimes, but it doesn't make it better.

[Echognome]

With two of my three main partners, it would go:

1♣* - 1♥^;
1♠@ - 2♣$;
2♦% - 3NT#;
Pass

*2+, style choice here, but without strong diamonds, we would show as bal min
^4+ spades
@2-3 spades, min opening
$Puppet to 2♦, to play or invitational (or certain Game choice bids)
%Forced
#5♠332 choice of games

At least it might be more difficult to find the club lead now.

[mike777]

Dirk Kuijt, on Jan 4 2010, 04:55 PM, said:

Dealer: South Vul: None Scoring: IMP

♠ A9843 ♥ Q106 ♦ A94 ♣ K9 ♠ J7 ♥ AK82 ♦ K10863 ♣ Q4

I ended in 4♠, on a auction that was not a thing of beauty.

FWIW, Deep Finesse said, on the full deal that 4♥ could be made, as could 4♠, but only from the short side.

Tricky I can see maybe:



1d=1s
1nt(11-13)=2c(xyz)
2d(forced)=2nt(12-13)(deny 4h)?
3h(4h, deny 3s)?=?

[bluecalm]

Quote

1♦ 1♠
1NT 2♦
2♥ 3NT
or whatever new minor forcing type of system you play.

I expect to have lots of company!

I am pretty sure I would end up with this exact sequence with my regular pd. Especially if we try to play well and avoid making "genius" bids.

Quote

I am also with Josh, obviously 2♦ rebid can works sometimes, but it doesn't make it better.

2♦ ? Never. I prefer the school of thought that 2♦ promises 6♦.
I am raising to 2♠ with 3-4-5-1 and bid 1NT with 2-4-5-2. Holding 2-4-5-Hx I wouldn't dream of 2♦ even if system allows it.

If opener had something like : Jx AKxx KQTxx xx he could bid 3H after checkback (max, concentrated values) but here I see no way to avoid 3NT.

[655321]

The Josh auction looks normal to me too.

Cyberyeti, on Jan 4 2010, 05:20 PM, said:

I've seen people open the S hand a weak no trump

Yes. Can't see why weak notrumpers would do anything other than open 1NT.

[gnasher]

3NT has some play even on a club lead. It needs the hearts to come in and the opponent with the long clubs to have three diamonds and ♠AK.

There is even the opportunity to do something clever. Suppose that LHO appears to have the long clubs. We should probably start the hearts by running the 10. That loses when LHO has KQx Jx or KQ Jxx in the majors, but gains when he has KQx 9x or KQx xx.

[Fluffy]

I am probably missing something, but why wouldn't you cash ♥Q before running the 10 to cover for stiff ♥J?

[Dirk Kuijt]

Also, you can make 3NT with ♦QJ doubleton or ♦honor singleton with West.

10 tricks, what's the problem?

(Well, maybe I still don't want to be there.)

[bluecalm]

Just to add something to the discussion.
Holding :
J8
AT82
AKJ65
J3

Versace rebid 2♦ instead of 1NT in European Champions Cup 2004.
They play basically simple natural system. I wonder.. maybe there is something to it. Unfortunately no way to ask him :-)

[shevek]

Sometimes the shuffler throws up good relay hands like this one.
Pretty sure we'd reach 4♥ after

1♥          1♠ R
1N (♦)     2♣ R
2♥ (4-5)   2♠ R
3♣ (2-4-5-2)

North decides to forgo 3NT because of 2-2 clubs. 3♥ would be a control ask, so we play 4♣ here as "show some texture", leading to 4♥.
Too bad if South had ♣A all along but the odds favour skimming past.

[Fluffy]

bluecalm, on Jan 5 2010, 07:12 AM, said:

Just to add something to the discussion.
Holding :
J8
AT82
AKJ65
J3

Versace rebid 2♦ instead of 1NT in European Champions Cup 2004.
They play basically simple natural system. I wonder.. maybe there is something to it. Unfortunately no way to ask him :-)

We also losed a game swing in Bejing agaiinst uhm don't remember if New Zealand of Belgium, because they rebid 2♦ with that holding and ended up in 4♠ on the 5-2 fit.

As I said, it might work , but it doesn't prove it better.

[bluecalm]

Quote

As I said, it might work , but it doesn't prove it better.

Yeah. Actually I generated some hands for 1S response and I am convinced 1NT is just better rebid, especially if you play 1D as promising 5+ (or 4♦-5♣). 2♦ Too often leads to 5-2 diamond partial instead of 6/7-2♣ one or just 1NT if responder is 4-3-2-4 or something.
If you play 1D promising 5+ it's even more comfortable as partner is free to correct to 2♦ with only 3cards if he/she feels like it.

[ONEferBRID]

Dirk Kuijt, on Jan 4 2010, 04:55 PM, said:

Dealer: South Vul: None Scoring: IMP

♠ A9843 ♥ Q106 ♦ A94 ♣ K9 ♠ J7 ♥ AK82 ♦ K10863 ♣ Q4

I ended in 4♠, on a auction that was not a thing of beauty.

FWIW, Deep Finesse said, on the full deal that 4♥ could be made, as could 4♠, but only from the short side.

My bidding would discover the 4-3 Ht fit, but I'm not sure I would play there:
1D - 1S
2D ( 5+, minimum unbalanced ) - 2H! ( cheapest new suit forcing;like NMF )
3H ( 4 cards ) - ??

[gnasher]

Fluffy, on Jan 5 2010, 01:06 AM, said:

I am probably missing something, but why wouldn't you cash ♥Q before running the 10 to cover for stiff ♥J?

Yes, you should do that.