[kfay]

http://bit.ly/1745Ik

[pooltuna]

kfay, on Sep 13 2009, 09:27 PM, said:

http://bit.ly/1745Ik

If you can't cut and paste it here you will find my answer below

Spoiler

[kfay]

pooltuna, on Sep 13 2009, 09:44 PM, said:

kfay, on Sep 13 2009, 09:27 PM, said:

http://bit.ly/1745Ik

If you can't cut and paste it here you will find my answer below

Spoiler

Sorry but I don't understand what you're asking.

[xcurt]

You're both culpable. Percent of blame exceeds 100%.

S was pretty conservative in the auction too.

[Cascade]

I don't understand West's PASS of 3♦ Dbl.

But nor do I understand East's Dbl when West has already bid one of his four-card suits.

Maybe 40-60 or 30-70 West-East.

[andy_h]

Not sure if I would get to game. As West I would compete 3♥ over 3♦ in which East can probably raise picturing West with ♣K maybe Q, ♥J and it just depends if West has 2 or 3spades, if the latter the defense can get some spade ruffs. But as it is when West passed 3♦ I like the 2nd double from East - it informs partner that we have extra values and partner is allowed to convert it to penalties if need be. After that 2nd double it should be easy enough for West to take it out to 4♥ with good working values.

[effervesce]

20%-100% for EW leaving NS in 3♦X, 10%-10% for EW missing 4♥,
5%-5% for NS missing 3NT.

[quiddity]

I think East is mostly to blame. He passed 2H and North did not raise diamonds, so the double sounds penalty-oriented to me. With a singleton diamond and just a single ace, I can't see how East can expect the -2 he needs for this double. And given the 4-card support and offensive honors I don't understand why he isn't raising hearts.

[Jlall]

I think east bid his hand perfectly, and west had an obvious 4H bid over the second double. WD kfay.

[gnasher]

Interesting that par is 4NTx-1 by NS.

[gnasher]

I think East should have raised 2♥ to 3♥. He might have a much worse hand to balance there.

I don't really like the idea of relying on further competition from South to get us to game.

[Jlall]

gnasher, on Sep 14 2009, 02:38 AM, said:

I think East should have raised 2♥ to 3♥. He might have a much worse hand to balance there.

I don't really like the idea of relying on further competition from South to get us to game.

Meh, there's a reasonable chance partner doesn't even have 4 hearts on this auction, there's a reasonable chance LHO has a stiff spade and they can get a ruff, there is a big likelihood that they have more HCP than us, I dunno I think driving past the 2 level is a big view that obviously could work out.

Anyways it's certainly possible that it was percentage to pass 2H, but then once they competed we can use that to help us get to game (or to defend 3D X if that is right). It seems like east did something reasonable the first time, then something good the second time, and west completely dropped the ball for no reason.

[quiddity]

quiddity, on Sep 13 2009, 11:47 PM, said:

I think East is mostly to blame. He passed 2H and North did not raise diamonds, so the double sounds penalty-oriented to me.

I tried coming up with candidate East hands to support this point and couldn't. East needs a really pathological hand for 3D-X to be right, and most of those hands would have overcalled 1NT or doubled 1S for takeout.

[Edmunte1]

I bet that after the board South used the final line from this commercial

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=_nuNSTo-fH8

[Phil]

Jlall, on Sep 14 2009, 01:05 AM, said:

I think east bid his hand perfectly, and west had an obvious 4H bid over the second double. WD kfay.

Ditto.

[quiddity]

Jlall, on Sep 14 2009, 02:42 AM, said:

Anyways it's certainly possible that it was percentage to pass 2H, but then once they competed we can use that to help us get to game (or to defend 3D X if that is right).

Agreed obv that West cannot pass the double with his actual hand and that both double and raise should lead to good results on this hand. But double still looks dangerous to me. If West has his actual hand, East's action risks a pass-out of 2H when game was cold. If West has a bust, even with bad shape, he'll have to pull and the fact that South was able to take a second bid might allow North to double us. If West has something like xxx J9xx KQx xxx he'll probably pass (won't he? why else are we doubling except to give ourselves a chance to defend when West has trump tricks?) and 3D-X will be close. What does West do with AJx of diamonds?

[nigel_k]

West 80%, East 20%. West should have bid 3♥ at either of his last two turns and certainly after the double.

East's second double is better than 3♥ if you know partner will understand it but he gets 20% for choosing to put partner under pressure when he has a very decent alternative. I would not raise 2♥ directly with East though it is somewhat close considering some of the garbage I balance on.

[kfay]

nigel_k, on Sep 14 2009, 03:32 PM, said:

West 80%, East 20%. West should have bid 3♥ at either of his last two turns and certainly after the double.

East's second double is better than 3♥ if you know partner will understand it but he gets 20% for choosing to put partner under pressure when he has a very decent alternative. I would not raise 2♥ directly with East though it is somewhat close considering some of the garbage I balance on.

These are exactly my thoughts about the hand.

The winning bid is the bid that works. I wasn't sure if partner would field this or not, perhaps he should, but it got us a bad result.

Thinking back about it I'm not sure if I should bid 3♥ over 2♥ directly, my intuition says yes. But the 2nd double, although maybe theoretically correct... is DANGEROUS! Especially because I know that LHO is no joker. He's a poor bidder from time to time, I gather, but I doubt he would push himself to a position to go for a number.

I'm glad JLall and Phil agree with how I bid it but I just don't know... at the table I felt good but post mortem... not so good.

It was a really funny hand.

[Cascade]

So what is west expected to do over east's double with say:


T x x
J x x
K x x x
T x x