[h2osmom]

My husband is a teacher, and started out his teaching career in Watts, well known for being a poor and gang infested area. One day he was on his conference, and a kid was walking the halls rather than being in class. Brad told the student he would walk him to class. The student resisted, said he could go himself, and Brad insisted he would accompany him. Three different times the student changed his story of where he belonged that period. At that point Brad told the student they would go to the office and sort it out. The student tried to run out the front entrance, and Brad grabbed his jacket to keep him from running. They arrived at the office, and the kid refused to say his name. The counselor recognized the kid, but couldn't place him. Brad then went and asked Math teachers in turn to go to the office and try to identify the student, while he watched the class. The 2nd teacher was able to identify the student, and said student was given a 3 day suspension from school. The next morning the kid showed up at school with his 18 year old sister. They wanted to register a complaint. They were told that the complaint could only be taken from his parent; not a sister unless she was legal guardian. That afternoon the mother came in with the student to lodge the complaint, which was that Brad had grabbed the kids jacket to keep him from running. The jacket wasn't damaged in any way, but that was the parent response.

Once the kid refused to give his name to the school authorities, he lost all credibility. When a parent doesn't support school authorities at all, then there is no school authority. It's true that students shoouldn't be afraid of their teachers. It's just as true that teachers shouldn't be afraid of their students.

[luke warm]

h2osmom, on May 31 2009, 11:32 AM, said:

Once the kid refused to give his name to the school authorities, he lost all credibility. When a parent doesn't support school authorities at all, then there is no school authority. It's true that students shoouldn't be afraid of their teachers. It's just as true that teachers shouldn't be afraid of their students.

that's a big part of the problem, parents haven't backed up the teachers for a long time... i think i mentioned that corporal punishment was allowed when i was in school... i also should have mentioned that had my dad found out i was so punished it would have been worse for me at home

[PassedOut]

luke warm, on Jun 1 2009, 05:02 PM, said:

h2osmom, on May 31 2009, 11:32 AM, said:

Once the kid refused to give his name to the school authorities,  he lost all credibility.  When a parent doesn't support school authorities at all,  then there is no school authority.  It's true that students shoouldn't be afraid of their teachers.  It's just as true that teachers shouldn't be afraid of their students.

that's a big part of the problem, parents haven't backed up the teachers for a long time... i think i mentioned that corporal punishment was allowed when i was in school... i also should have mentioned that had my dad found out i was so punished it would have been worse for me at home

Same here.

[kenberg]

I would like to separate the issue of corporal punishment from the general question of support for the teacher. I am not fond of corporal punishment but support for the teacher is essential.


In the jacket case above, the student is running off and the teacher grabbed him by the jacket to prevent this from happening. In my view, if the jacket got ripped, tough. Next time the kid should follow the teacher's directions. The ripped jacket would be a natural consequence of the teacher doing his job while the kid is resisting reasonable control measures.

There are times when a teacher needs to be reined in. but there are far more instances where a teacher is given crap for doing what would strike me, and I think most people, as perfectly reasonable. The jacket case seems like an example. It is most important to realize that a teacher need not be perfect to deserve support. He cannot be a sadist or a bully but he definitely does not have to be perfect. There just are not that many perfect people to go around.

As to corporal punishment: I am not horrified by it but it really is not so practical. Kids get bigger. Not all teachers are strong (we need those who are not, just as we need those who are not perfect). A grandson, when he was younger, had trouble with self-control When he was six or so I was supervising him at some function and I picked him up and removed him from a game where he was being a pain. I physically restrained him from rejoining the game. But I also explained to him that he would be getting bigger and I would not always be able to do this, so his job was to learn how to get himself under control. He paid close attention. Most kids want to learn how to interact successfully with others. If they get to be sixteen or so without learning this, the fat is in the fire.

[mike777]

Since we have sort of veered into education here is a thought.

I would like to see increased dollars go into building more schools/colleges and thus increasing the supply.

Giving more tuition aid simply increases demand and drives up the cost of a college education.