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Comment Bidding ..and suggest play if you want

#1 User is offline   kgr 

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Posted 2008-December-13, 07:43

Scoring: IMP

(2H)-P-(p)-DBL
(3D)-3S-(4D)-4S
(5D)-P-(P)-5S
(p)-p-(DBL)-All pass
 
(North blamed South for bidding 3S. I guess a DBL by South would be penalty?)
 
Lead A (East 8)
3 to K , South discarding 2.
East plays J for A in North (West 8).
You now play A from North, East 8 and West 2.
How do you continue now?
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#2 User is offline   Hanoi5 

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Posted 2008-December-13, 08:09

I draw trumps. I don't know of any way to make the hand if spades are worse than 4-2, the important play of the hand was discarding the heart on the second diamond, now the hand should make about 70% of the time.

 wyman, on 2012-May-04, 09:48, said:

Also, he rates to not have a heart void when he leads the 3.


 rbforster, on 2012-May-20, 21:04, said:

Besides playing for fun, most people also like to play bridge to win


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#3 User is offline   OleBerg 

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Posted 2008-December-13, 09:16

In the bidding, my blame goes to North.

A double of 3 looks so much like a penalty-double to me, that I wouldn't dare to bid it withouth a firm agreement. (It would probably be take-out according to Robson - Seagal though.)

In my book a double of 4 is take-out, for which North has the perfect hand:

- Strength to bid again.
- Only three spades.
- The unbid suit is an option.

The 5 call over 5 is playing partner for the perfect hand. (Which they never have.)

Can't see anything fancy in the play.
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Do not underestimate the power of the dark side. Or the ninth trumph.

Best Regards Ole Berg

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We should always assume 2/1 unless otherwise stated, because:

- If the original poster didn't bother to state his system, that means that he thinks it's obvious what he's playing. The only people who think this are 2/1 players.


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#4 User is offline   jdonn 

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Posted 2008-December-13, 09:54

Bidding: I think it was fine until north made his final bid of 5 instead of doubling 5. I don't think there is a reasonable way to find 6 unless south plays a double of 3 as responsive, which I wouldn't.

Play: Of course the only way to make is to draw trump and hope they are 4-2, but are they? East really looks to be 6-5. 5-5 may be possible but 6-4 certainly isn't (no way would easy bid 5 with that shape.) The problem of course is what if we draw two rounds of trumps and they are 5-1, we will lose control and I believe go down 3, vulnerable, doubled. And that's if east is 1651 - if east is 1552 I believe it's even worse. But complicating things is that if I settle for down 1 (drawing one round of trumps then running my tricks) I don't see any way that we won't lose lots of imps on the board. Almost every possible result would involve a game-sized plus or more for N/S at the other table. Pretty much the only scenario I can imagine that doesn't would be 3 p p 3NT, and a diamond lead for down 1.

All things considered, I just think it's way too likely trumps are 5-1 and I don't want to go for 800 or even worse in case our teammates did well to get a plus score, so I will play the ace of spades and run my tricks to settle for down 1.
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#5 User is offline   jdonn 

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Posted 2008-December-13, 10:03

Hanoi5, on Dec 13 2008, 09:09 AM, said:

I draw trumps. I don't know of any way to make the hand if spades are worse than 4-2, the important play of the hand was discarding the heart on the second diamond, now the hand should make about 70% of the time.

70%? In abstract sure, but not after this auction...
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#6 User is offline   kgr 

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Posted 2008-December-13, 10:13

jdonn's analysis was pretty complete.
East has 1=6=5=1.
I misplayed first by playing 2 's. You only go -2 then (you switch to until West ruffs and West then has to play in double ruff. You ruff in N and play H until West ruffs. You can ruff Diamond return, play to get West's last trump and cashthe winners).
B) I did ruff at the end, but ending with K and 8 (K in dummy) I played giving W a ruff and another trick for -3. ...That was probably enough reason for North to criticise my bidding and play and to leave.
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#7 User is offline   kgr 

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Posted 2008-December-13, 10:16

BTW: I thought this hand is very interesting to study because it teaches trump control and communicating (Not playing a 2nd trump allows communication to S to draw trumps). ...So i should thank N for leaving and triggering me to study this hand. B)
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#8 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2008-December-13, 19:36

Over 3, I think 3 should be like a responsive double. I doubt if that would get you to 6, but at least it would avoid 5.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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#9 User is offline   FrancesHinden 

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Posted 2008-December-15, 04:06

gnasher, on Dec 14 2008, 01:36 AM, said:

Over 3, I think 3 should be like a responsive double. I doubt if that would get you to 6, but at least it would avoid 5.

I was about to say the same thing.

Generally, when the opponents have bid two suits in this type of auction, and a double would be penalties, the cue is available as a 'responsive double'. Similarly applies to e.g.

1H P P x
2D 2H

or 1H x 1S 2H
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#10 User is offline   OleBerg 

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Posted 2008-December-15, 04:42

FrancesHinden, on Dec 15 2008, 12:06 PM, said:

gnasher, on Dec 14 2008, 01:36 AM, said:

Over 3, I think 3 should be like a responsive double.  I doubt if that would get you to 6, but at least it would avoid 5.

I was about to say the same thing.

Generally, when the opponents have bid two suits in this type of auction, and a double would be penalties, the cue is available as a 'responsive double'. Similarly applies to e.g.

1H P P x
2D 2H

or 1H x 1S 2H

Sounds right. Must admit I missed it the first time.

So the 3 shows 4 spades?

I ask because many play that, for instance

(2) - X - (3) - X

does not show 4 spades, and probably denies it.

I can see that the situation is not the same, but still I would be a little afraid to bid 3 with four spades.
_____________________________________

Do not underestimate the power of the dark side. Or the ninth trumph.

Best Regards Ole Berg

_____________________________________

We should always assume 2/1 unless otherwise stated, because:

- If the original poster didn't bother to state his system, that means that he thinks it's obvious what he's playing. The only people who think this are 2/1 players.


Gnasher
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#11 User is offline   brianshark 

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Posted 2008-December-15, 05:43

The dbl of 3 is penalties so I have no problem with 3. The dbl of 4 would show better Diamonds so despite the fact that I have only 3 cards in partner's chosen suit and have a balanced hand rather than a take-out hand, you kind of have to bid 4 to show your extras. But when 5 is bid in front of you, just smack it. It's tough to find 6.
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