[kfay]

Scoring: IMP

(3♥)-?

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[ArtK78]

I like to have more stuff for my 3♠ overcalls, but partner, with a reasonable hand without 4 good spades and having some heart length, could pass out 3♥ when we are cold for game.

So I bid 3♠.

Did I go for 1100?

[Winstonm]

Pass. But my intense glare at RHO should alert my partner that it is safe to balance.

[mikeh]

Looks like 3♠ to me... sure, double might well work better, but our best chance to play spades is after I bid them... and if the hand belongs to them in 4♥, I'd like a spade lead rather than a minor suit.

I wouldn't laugh at either 3♠ or double.

I wouldn't laugh at pass either, but I wouldn't want to play with anyone who was that timid.. even tho they may well do a heck of a lot better on this hand than I did.

[barmar]

mikeh, on Dec 10 2008, 06:30 PM, said:

Looks like 3♠ to me... sure, double might well work better, but our best chance to play spades is after I bid them... and if the hand belongs to them in 4♥, I'd like a spade lead rather than a minor suit.

Shouldn't be a problem getting that, since you'll be on lead!

[han]

3S, I don't think double is right with such strong spades.

Pass certainly doesn't seem to be the long term winner when we have an opening hand with good spades and heart shortness.

[Winstonm]

mikeh, on Dec 10 2008, 05:30 PM, said:

Looks like 3♠ to me... sure, double might well work better, but our best chance to play spades is after I bid them... and if the hand belongs to them in 4♥, I'd like a spade lead rather than a minor suit.

I wouldn't laugh at either 3♠ or double.

I wouldn't laugh at pass either, but I wouldn't want to play with anyone who was that timid.. even tho they may well do a heck of a lot better on this hand than I did.

You or your partners obviously do not appreciate the "glare" factor. Probably a flaw in your game from playing too often behind screens.

[Hanoi5]

3♠. either I enter now or never will.

[655321]

3♠, second choice double.

I think we need to get into the auction with heart shortness and an opening hand, so Pass is not an option for me. But with our pretty ugly hand, I can see that sometimes bidding will get us into trouble.

I am guessing that you passed this hand, got laughed at for bidding like... someone not playing in Open events... but you were able to laugh back when it turned out that bidding scores -1100.

[han]

No way, you don't know Kevin, Kevin doesn't pass when it is right to pass and he certainly doesn't pass when it is right to bid. He bid and got laughed at by a n00b is my guess.

[andy_h]

agree with 655321

[Fluffy]

I agree with Han, pass and double look reasonable, but 3♠ probably stands out in the long run.

[MarkDean]

I think it is close between 3♠ and pass. I would not double with such suit disparity.

On one hand the suit is so shiny and I strain to bid with shortness in their suit. On the other hand, it is the three level vulnerable.

[MFA]

With this hand type (such good spades) it's 3♠ or pass. Here we are good enough for 3♠, I think.

[kfay]

Ok. So the majority for 3♠ then. I've heard a lot of good arguments.

At the table I doubled. Here's the full deal:

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Partner bid 3NT, which W (the guy who laughed at double) doubled.

The defense wasn't spectacular, with a low heart lead. When W got in with the ♦A he shifted to the ♣J and E didn't continue the suit. We scored up 18 IMPS when the other table was in 3NTX-5.

I certainly understand why everyone bids 3♠. Maybe that's a better choice for the future. But possibly there's an argument for double here since it looks like defending 3♥ is our last plus.

[cherdano]

Kevin! You deserve someone shouting at you!
Not for doubling, put for posting Jxxx Qxx when you had J98x Q98!

[Winstonm]

kfay, on Dec 10 2008, 11:05 PM, said:

Ok. So the majority for 3♠ then. I've heard a lot of good arguments.

At the table I doubled. Here's the full deal:

---

Partner bid 3NT, which W (the guy who laughed at double) doubled.

The defense wasn't spectacular, with a low heart lead. When W got in with the ♦A he shifted to the ♣J and E didn't continue the suit. We scored up 18 IMPS when the other table was in 3NTX-5.

I certainly understand why everyone bids 3♠. Maybe that's a better choice for the future. But possibly there's an argument for double here since it looks like defending 3♥ is our last plus.

Looks more like an argument for pass.

My real thinking on this hand is this: I like my spade suit. I like my short heart. Normally, the short heart hand should try to act.

Negative. It is the 3-level. We are vulnerable.

But here is the kicker to me: AKQxx, J, Jxxx, Qxx is not all that much better than AKQxx, x, xxxx, xxx.

I would open the first hand at the 1 level but wouldn't be thrilled to do so. The 3 level bid to me should be more than a dead minimum opening hand.

[Edmunte1]

I think 3♠ is the first normal option, pass second. Sometimes normal things fail, sometimes badly. That's not a reason to stop making the bid with highest chance of success.

[kfay]

Edmunte1, on Dec 11 2008, 03:00 AM, said:

I think 3♠ is the first normal option, pass second. Sometimes normal things fail, sometimes badly. That's not a reason to stop making the bid with highest chance of success.

I don't think I've heard any convincing arguments yet about why 3♠ has some higher chance of success than double. In fact, the only 2 good arguments I've heard against double are: 1) we want to show 'where we live' and 2) It's harder for the opponents to whack us with, say, Jxxx of spades and some other cards. Over double responder has a convenient redouble available to suggest a juicy penalty.

I'd really like to hear your thoughts as to why 2♠ is that much greater at finding a suitable place for partner when it strongly suggest one playable place while double suggests 3 (which we have).

BTW I'm not arguing against 3♠, per say. Obviously the prevalence of ♠ bidders on this panel should suggest that 3♠ has more going for it than double. But to suggest that passing is a better alternative to doubling is just 'bowing down to the favorable preempt' as a friend of mine colorfully said.

[jdonn]

1 - There is one way and only one to be sure to find a 5-3 spade fit.
2 - It's harder to double you there than a minor if you are wrong since your suit is good and you are at a lower level.
3 - If partner passes the double that is very likely to be bad for us since our defense is so bad.