[pclayton]

♠AJ98x ♥T9xx ♦xx ♣xx

1♦ - 1♠ - 2N - ?

Wolff Applies (3♣ to signoff in spades (3♥ after Wolff is a slam try in the other minor); 3♦ is checkback).

Soz, no transfers today.

BTW, how would you bid this not playing Wolff?

[jdonn]

Can we bid 3♣ then 3♥ to possibly get out in hearts? Not that I'm sure I want to since it's probably the wrong suit if partner is 2-3, but it's still worth knowing.

[pclayton]

jdonn, on Nov 3 2008, 05:10 PM, said:

Can we bid 3♣ then 3♥ to possibly get out in hearts? Not that I'm sure I want to since it's probably the wrong suit if partner is 2-3, but it's still worth knowing.

Nope; thats artificial.

[cherdano]

3♦, better go down in 4♥ than in 2N.

[xcurt]

3♦, this seems like a prototypical "overbid a little to get to the best strain" decision.

I don't want to try to make exactly 2NT with the long spades possibly getting stranded.

[FrancesHinden]

Playing 3D as checkback, I bid 3D and play in 4M or 3NT
Not playing artificial methods, I bid 3H natural and forcing and play in 4M or 3NT.

[pclayton]

xcurt, on Nov 3 2008, 10:32 PM, said:

3♦, this seems like a prototypical "overbid a little to get to the best strain" decision.

I don't want to try to make exactly 2NT with the long spades possibly getting stranded.

This is what I tried.

Not sure if I was lucky or not. Pard held: Qx, KQJx, AJxx, AJx. Nine tricks was a little over average.

[xcurt]

pclayton, on Nov 4 2008, 09:07 AM, said:

xcurt, on Nov 3 2008, 10:32 PM, said:

3♦, this seems like a prototypical "overbid a little to get to the best strain" decision.

I don't want to try to make exactly 2NT with the long spades possibly getting stranded.

This is what I tried.

Not sure if I was lucky or not. Pard held: Qx, KQJx, AJxx, AJx. Nine tricks was a little over average.

If this was matchpoints I would be tempted to sign off in 3♠ and try to get a plus. Even if it's a 5-2 fit I think I will do one trick better than NT, winning the board with any number of tricks made.

This action pays off to a 4-4 heart fit, though.

[han]

If you bid 3D and partner bids 3M you can still pass right?

[jdonn]

How about a quick sim, Cascade maybe?

How often does partner have three spades, four hearts, or neither?

[TimG]

jdonn, on Nov 4 2008, 11:38 AM, said:

How often does partner have three spades, four hearts, or neither?

Give me some simple constraints for opener and I will do the simulation. Something like 44 in the minors opens 1D or 1C? Could opener have six diamonds? If so, any restrictions on which hands with 6 diamonds would rebid 2N? 1363 for instance?

[jdonn]

TimG, on Nov 4 2008, 11:49 AM, said:

jdonn, on Nov 4 2008, 11:38 AM, said:

How often does partner have three spades, four hearts, or neither?

Give me some simple constraints for opener and I will do the simulation. Something like 44 in the minors opens 1D or 1C? Could opener have six diamonds? If so, any restrictions on which hands with 6 diamonds would rebid 2N? 1363 for instance?

I think Phil should answer those questions based on his own agreements or the style in use.

[TimG]

Here are some results. 100,000 sample size for each.

(1) Give opener 4333, 4432, 5332, or 6322 with longest suit diamonds (open 1D with 44 in minors) and 18-19 HCP:

opener has 3 spades = 50.9%
opener has 4 hearts = 20.7%
opener has 3 spades or 4 hearts = 64.1%
opener has 3 spades and 4 hearts = 7.5%

(2) Same, but allow opener to also be 1444 or 1363:

opener has 3 spades = 45.8%
opener has 4 hearts = 26.0%
opener has 3 spades or 4 hearts = 64.9%
opener has 3 spades and 4 hearts = 6.9%

(1a) Same as (1), but open 1C with 44 in minors:
opener has 3 spades = 55.0%
opener has 4 hearts = 29.0%
opener has 3 spades or 4 hearts = 73.2%
opener has 3 spades and 4 hearts = 10.8%

(2a) Same as (2), but open 1C with 44 in minors (so no 1444):
opener has 3 spades = 52.4%
opener has 4 hearts = 27.5%
opener has 3 spades or 4 hearts = 69.8%
opener has 3 spades and 4 hearts = 10.1%

[bid_em_up]

Phil, I do not play Wolff.

Could you please give me an example hand that would have a slam try in the other minor that failed to bid that minor first?

Since I don't play it, this treatment strikes me as odd.

[pclayton]

jdonn, on Nov 4 2008, 08:55 AM, said:

TimG, on Nov 4 2008, 11:49 AM, said:

jdonn, on Nov 4 2008, 11:38 AM, said:

How often does partner have three spades, four hearts, or neither?

Give me some simple constraints for opener and I will do the simulation. Something like 44 in the minors opens 1D or 1C? Could opener have six diamonds? If so, any restrictions on which hands with 6 diamonds would rebid 2N? 1363 for instance?

I think Phil should answer those questions based on his own agreements or the style in use.

6 diamonds is possible but unlikely. 4-4 in the minors definitely opens 1♦.

[pclayton]

bid_em_up, on Nov 4 2008, 11:48 AM, said:

Phil, I do not play Wolff.

Could you please give me an example hand that would have a slam try in the other minor that failed to bid that minor first?

Since I don't play it, this treatment strikes me as odd.

The classic hand is 5♠; 5♣ and an opening hand (plus). Obviously a hand with 4♠; 5+ clubs starts with 2♣.

[BobElliott]

INSTEAD OF WOLFF PLAY ALL SUITS ARE TRANSFERS:

3C= D
3D=5S & 4+H
3H=44 MAJORS
3S=C

ON THIS HAND OPENER WILL BID 3H AND YOU PASS...IF OPENER IS 23 IN
THE MAJORS...TOO BAD.

[han]

When playing transfers you can just bid 3D. Opener should bid 3S with 2-2. 3-2 or 3-3 in the majors. You'll play hearts when opener is 2-3 which is too bad but you'l play hearts when opener is 2-4 which is good.

[jdonn]

han, on Nov 5 2008, 05:29 PM, said:

When playing transfers you can just bid 3D. Opener should bid 3S with 2-2. 3-2 or 3-3 in the majors. You'll play hearts when opener is 2-3 which is too bad but you'l play hearts when opener is 2-4 which is good.

Even though that would tend to be the thing to do with this shape, my qualm is that with these suits a 4-3 heart fit is probably quite bad, certainly worse than a 5-2 spade fit. Overall not an easy hand.

[pclayton]

Yes, ♥ transfers, especially for hands like this.

Not in the arsenal today.

I also love reverse flannery. Would also have helped.