[ArtK78]

Scoring: IMP

(P) - 1♥ - (3♣) - ?

---

This hand occurred in the first of seven swiss matches at a Regional yesterday. My partner and I did not bid the heart slam. At the other table, there was no 3♣ bid, and the opponents did bid the slam, but the way they bid it made no sense to me. My hand (responder) bid Jacoby 2NT, and over opener's 3♣ shortness showing bid, signed off in 4♥. Opener then drove to slam.

Note that if opener is 2-1 in the minors instead of 3-0, slam is unmakable on a diamond lead assuming that clubs are 7-1 (unless the hand with the singleton club has no hearts or only a singleton ♥A).

Your thoughts?

[jdonn]

It's too hard to formulate an unbiased auction knowing both hands, but I don't think bidding slam is unrealistic after 3♣. When south bids 4♣, north might consider it worthwhile to at least drive to the 5 level. However if a pair missed slam, I wouldn't think that was the most horrible thing ever.

[ArtK78]

jdonn, on Nov 3 2008, 01:55 PM, said:

It's too hard to formulate an unbiased auction knowing both hands, but I don't think bidding slam is unrealistic after 3♣. When south bids 4♣, north might consider it worthwhile to at least drive to the 5 level. However if a pair missed slam, I wouldn't think that was the most horrible thing ever.

Yes, I agree that opener may move beyond 4♥ if responder bids 4♣ over 3♣.

I did not like my club values that much after the 3♣ bid, so I just bid game in hearts rather than cuebid 4♣.

Do you think the responding hand is worth more than a game bid?

[jdonn]

The only two things of which I am sure are

- I would bid 4♣ as south
- Over that, I would bid something other than 4♥ as north

I don't bid 4♣ with "more than a game bid", the minimum would be any game force that was not a stretch and is suitable for slam.

[655321]

4♣ by South seems beyond obvious.

As for the auction at the other table, as opener I would certainly bid again over 4♥, partner has shown an opening hand, 4 card heart support, and club wastage. Many hands fitting that description will make slam.

ArtK78, on Nov 3 2008, 12:23 PM, said:

Note that if opener is 2-1 in the minors instead of 3-0, slam is unmakable on a diamond lead assuming that clubs are 7-1 (unless the hand with the singleton club has no hearts or only a singleton ♥A).

A void is hugely better than a singleton for slam purposes. Opener knows he has a void and not a singleton and can bid on that basis. So how good or bad a slam would be on a particular lead if he had a different hand is not relevant.

[whereagles]

I don't think I'd reach this one playing myself, let alone with a real life pard

[ArtK78]

655321, on Nov 3 2008, 05:25 PM, said:

As for the auction at the other table, as opener I would certainly bid again over 4♥, partner has shown an opening hand, 4 card heart support, and club wastage. Many hands fitting that description will make slam.

That last sentence may be one of the more silly statements I have seen in these Fora.

What you are saying is that partner is telling you that his hand is not slam suitable, with values opposite your void, and that is an encouraging sign?

I don't think so.

[655321]

ArtK78, on Nov 3 2008, 08:06 PM, said:

655321, on Nov 3 2008, 05:25 PM, said:

As for the auction at the other table, as opener I would certainly bid again over 4♥, partner has shown an opening hand, 4 card heart support, and club wastage. Many hands fitting that description will make slam.

That last sentence may be one of the more silly statements I have seen in these Fora.

What you are saying is that partner is telling you that his hand is not slam suitable, with values opposite your void, and that is an encouraging sign?

I don't think so.

Oh dear.

OK, I will try once more then give up.

North has opened the bidding with a fine hand, 6-4 shape, a void.
He knows his partner has an opening hand - great!
He knows his partner has 4 card support - terrific!
He knows his partner has some club wastage - not good.

But the good factors here outweigh the bad. To decide that the hand is not worth looking for slam because there is some bad news along with all the good is very pessimistic indeed.

[jdonn]

This is a silly argument, because as usual it's the 4♥ bid showing goodness-knows-what that caused the problem instead of bidding 3♥. 4♥ showing just some random minimum that was not suited by partner's rebid does not work!

[cherdano]

Agree with 655321. Of course better agreements make for a better auction, but given standard agreements it seems clear to bid on over 4♥.

[Quantumcat]

It's easy if you play transfers over interference! Perhaps this (but there could be other auctions): 3D, 4H, 5C, 5D, 5H, 6H

[keylime]

I think you can not bid this with three dead diamonds in South's hand. I don't mind the 4 level cuebid but I'm bailing at 4H. Even if pard makes a 4D noise, we don't know the club situation if pard or the opps have the void.

[Cascade]

jdonn, on Nov 4 2008, 08:40 AM, said:

The only two things of which I am sure are

- I would bid 4♣ as south
- Over that, I would bid something other than 4♥ as north

I don't bid 4♣ with "more than a game bid", the minimum would be any game force that was not a stretch and is suitable for slam.

I agree with all of this.

North has AK, A, void and six trumps - this is huge when partner makes a good raise.

A 4♦ cue would be normal for me and I would go again when partner rebids 4♥.