[pclayton]

Matchpoints

♠KQTxx ♥Jxx ♦Jx ♣Jxx

1♦ - 1♠ - 3♠ - ?

[benlessard]

P here.

[effervesce]

I take the low road and pass at MP. Too much in spades, and crappy J's. If partner has a 4153 or 4351 shape hand game could be pretty decent though. 4♠ more likely to be better than 3NT with nothing much outside spades, and in any case will likely score better at MP as suit contracts usually get a trick extra.

[awm]

Is this a two-handed or four-handed auction?

(1) If partner is jump-raising my spades, I bid game. Usually it is right to bid game with five good trumps opposite a jump raise. A very minimum hand like Axxx Kx AKxxx xx and game is quite decent, and the 3♠ bid really should promise more than that.

(2) If partner overcalled 1♠ over LHO's 1♦ bid and RHO is splinter-raising diamonds, it depends on vulnerability. If we are red vs. white then I would pass since bidding 4♠ basically just gives opponents the choice of doubling us for a big number of bidding their game/slam. Otherwise I like 4♠ to help partner on lead and possibly find a spade sacrifice over 6♦ if partner has some extra shape and not much defense.

[jdonn]

Easy game bid! Partner can have 18-19 balanced with four spades, or a singleton which is sure to be useful if he has it, or likewise for any small doubleton. This isn't even close to me, missing games is bad at matchpoints too.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

the alternative to Pass and 4S is double,
which I would choose (my vote).

Assuming

1D - 1S
3S - ???

I would pass.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[benlessard]

Quote

Partner can have 18-19 balanced with four spades

Im never going to bid 3S with that.

[han]

Agree with easy 4S bid.

This hand reminds me from a bidding practice hand. I had the following:

xx
KQ109
109xxx
xx

the auction went

1C - 1H
3D - 3H
3S - ??

I hope you agree with 3H. Now what?

[pclayton]

han, on Oct 24 2008, 06:56 AM, said:

Agree with easy 4S bid.

This hand reminds me from a bidding practice hand. I had the following:

xx
KQ109
109xxx
xx

the auction went

1C - 1H
3D - 3H
3S - ??

I hope you agree with 3H. Now what?

I assume 3♠ is a cue, not some sort of Serious / Friv.

I don't agree with 3♥, but it is close. In many ways, this hand is very close to the one I posted since you have no wastage opposite shortness and 2 working doubletons.

Once I have limited my hand, I prefer a LTTC 4♦ which should emphasize good trump.

[mikeh]

I bid game, but not as cheerfully as Josh, and except in a weak notrump method, in which 3♠ is at least a huge 17, no way do my partners bid 3♠ with a balanced 19. A horrible 18.. yes.

[han]

I agree Phil, the hands are similar. The fifth trump is a big card though.

Of course 3S is not frivolous, that doesn't make any sense. 3D was either invitational or a very strong hand, 3H showed a poor hand. I like 4D, even though with this partner I had not discussed last train. Surely you have to bid something different from 4H and 4D is the bid that is least likely going to mislead partner. I don't think it necessarly shows strong trumps, you could make the same bid with something useful like Qxx K109x xxxx Jx.

[jdonn]

benlessard, on Oct 24 2008, 05:36 AM, said:

Quote

Partner can have 18-19 balanced with four spades

Im never going to bid 3S with that.

What can I say, merry overbidding to you! 19 can bid 3 or 4 depending on the hand, but most 18s are certainly only worth 3.

han, on Oct 24 2008, 09:56 AM, said:

xx
KQ109
109xxx
xx

the auction went

1C - 1H
3D  - 3H
3S - ??

I hope you agree with 3H. Now what?

5♥, if partner is still trying for slam after 3♥ then his hand is huge, and I have already shown about the range I hold. I see no reason to lie with 4♦.

[Mosene]

I bid 4 spades - but think it is much closer at matchpoints. Your distribution is not so good.

[rogerclee]

jdonn, on Oct 24 2008, 01:10 AM, said:

Easy game bid! Partner can have 18-19 balanced with four spades, or a singleton which is sure to be useful if he has it, or likewise for any small doubleton. This isn't even close to me, missing games is bad at matchpoints too.

Can't agree with this more, I would expect to make 5♠ more often than 3♠.

[ArtK78]

I would bid 4♠. The 5th trump is huge.

[pclayton]

Because it was matchpoints, I made a puss(illanimous) pass. I'm looking at these 9 friggin losers and a 5332. Pard put down A7xx Ax KQxxx Kx (I'm thinking: crap).

LHO leads the ♣A and finds the heart shift. Spade to the King and RHO shows out!

I'm lucky sometimes. +140 matchpointed OK.

I'm convinced by the arguments for 4♠, but I also think its pretty close. Give pard a more mundane Axxx x KQxxx Axx, and game is still worth bidding I think.

[han]

pclayton, on Oct 24 2008, 11:38 AM, said:

Give pard a more mundane Axxx x KQxxx Axx, and game is still worth bidding I think.

If by mundane you mean both an overbid and a misbid then I agree (I agree with JT that this is a snide remark but I think it has bridge content).

I would open 1NT with the hand partner actually had.

[pclayton]

han, on Oct 24 2008, 08:52 AM, said:

pclayton, on Oct 24 2008, 11:38 AM, said:

Give pard a more mundane Axxx x KQxxx Axx, and game is still worth bidding I think.

If by mundane you mean both an overbid and a misbid then I agree.

I don't agree, but it makes an even better point for 4♠, if you are bidding 2 spades with hands like this.

[benlessard]

In imps you can afford to bid light games, therefore when you are already at the 3 level it take any excuse to bid 4. So most play a style that is "heavy invite light acceptance" . It mean that whenever you make a game try you show real extras and responder can accept with speculative values and not the other way around (making speculative invite accepting with sound values) . With this method you avoid some 3 level contract, either you play 2 or you play 4 but less often 3.

At mp heavy invite and light accept still make sense but to a much lower degree. There is somewhat 2 style.

1m------1M
2M where 2M could be heavy and responder is expected to make a GT pretty light.

1m-------1M
3M is heavy and responder will just pass with a subminimum response or a dreaful hand.


The 2nd style is
1m------1M
2M tend to show a crappy hand (3 card raise, weak Nt or 11-12 with a stiff)
responder here doesnt need to make light GT here.

1m------1M
3M is speculative, show any extras 14 with a stiff any 15+
You will reach 3M-1 more often.


What you want to achieve is that

1- you dont miss good game
2- you are not playing bad games
3- you are not playing 3S going down (bias toward 2S instead of 3S).

In theory to maximize 1 & 2
You have to allow both players to show equal input into the decision.

1m-----1M
2M-----3M
3 or 4M

&

1m-----1M
3M------ pass or 4M

should have the same frequency (note here that we are only talking about borderline hands, hands where responder would have forced to game anyway and hands where both had an invite are not pertinents.)

In theory to maximize 3, you have to "avoid the 3 level"

1m------1M
2M------3M
4M


1m------1M
3M------4M

1m------1M
2M all pass

have to be more frequent than

1m-------1M
3M-------pass

&

1m-------1M
2M--------3M
pass

and the 2 sequence that lead to 3M should have the same frequency.


I did make a math model about this and there was 2 major other points.

Opener has a 3 branch input below game

minimum 2 (ill refuse a invite)
good 2 (im not inviting but ill accept an invite)
3 level invite.

responder has a 2 branch input

If opener did raise he can pass or 4.

if opener bid only 2 he can pass or invite.

This favor heavy invite by opener light accept by responder.

The 2nd points is the frequency of extras, its much more frequent for responder to have extras than for opener.

12 is more frequent then 15 by a greater factor than 8 vs 11 for responder. This is in favor of agressive invite by opener.

Another practical factor too is that

1m-----1M
2M (with a 2.5) ---- invite some balancing.

while

1m-----1M
3M doesnt.


Probably the most important thing is to be consequent with your style, if your frequency of subminimal responses is higher than average, than heavy invite by opener is the way to go,

if you bid invite with

Axxx
x
AKQTx
xxx

than with a 18-19 balanced you cannot afford to bid just 3S.