[paulg]

Just to confirm the legal side of things, firstly the Laws do not prohibit any psychic bidding - Law 40: http://www.ebu.co.uk...pter5.asp#law40

Law 40 A. Right to Choose Call or Play
A player may make any call or play (including an intentionally misleading call - such as a psychic bid - or a call or play that departs from commonly accepted, or previously announced, use of a convention), without prior announcement, provided that such call or play is not based on a partnership understanding.

Frivolous psyching, suggesting you have lost interest in the competition or are enjoying yourself at the expense of others, is a breach of the Laws. (Law 74A2, 74B1, 74C6)

However sponsoring organisations, including my own English Bridge Union, do impose limitations so that you may not psyche a game forcing or nearly game forcing artificial opening. This would include a 2C opener (but probably not a strong club opener) - http://www.math.auc....gebook/s06.html

The ACBL is more stringent, banning psyching of artificial opening bids and/or conventional responses thereto at all levels.

It is then down to the Directors to establish whether a bid is a psyche.
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Back to the hand in question, personally I think opening 2♣ is silly but clearly not a psyche. I also do not have a high opinion of "experts" who feel that this is a psyche by an intermediate and your description makes it sound like bullying.

As I'd say to the BIL members ... I think you'll find it easier to open these hands 1♠ in the long term.

Cheers

Paul

[mishovnbg]

mikestar, on Mar 18 2004, 02:19 AM, said:

As a former club director, my understanding is that it is a judgement call: if I determine that opening such a hand 2C is the partnership's actual agreement, then it is a failure to alert the unusually low playing strength and will adjust if there is damage. If I determine that the player does not have sufficient hand evaluation skill and really thinks this hand is worth 9 tricks, the result stands.

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Hi former director!

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If they have agreements to open distributional hands with 2♣, failure to alert can lead to penalty, if cause damage to the innocent competitor.

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If they don't have such agreements, then decision depend of country/regional/club rules. By WBF rules such hand must have 3hcp more than average (13+hcp) and must be close to game, so hand in example is not alertable. By ACBL rules I don't know, but if what I read is true, is also not alertable - enough defense and close to game enough because both majors. Shortly, by any rules I know and read, it is not a psyche, but hand evaluation.

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The general mistake of most directors, as I posted many times, is they fogrot that are not players, but directors. The director's decision can't be based on individual characteristics of competitor and fail to make right bid, because lack of knoledge (in this case right hand evaluation) do not exuse the competitor.

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Misho

[mishovnbg]

Free, on Mar 18 2004, 02:22 AM, said:

Seems like acbl land sucks bigtime... Freedom!!!

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Hi Frederick!

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If you like the freedom, come to Bulgaria, you will find here any kind of freedom, probably more freedom than you like, wild freedom.

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Misho

[slothy]

mishovnbg, on Mar 22 2004, 03:57 AM, said:

The general mistake of most directors, as I posted many times, is they forgot that are not players, but directors. The director's decision can't be based on individual characteristics of competitor and fail to make right bid, because lack of knowledge (in this case right hand evaluation) do not exuse the competitor.

i agree with you Misho although would like to alter your comment a bit...copyright withstanding

'The director's decision can't be biased on individual characteristics of competitor and fail to make right bid, because lack of knowledge (in this case right hand evaluation) do not exuse the competitor.'

The point i am making is that it is difficult for a director (esp. in local competitions/drives when most of players are familiar with each other's styles) to make a call on a particular hand by a particular competitor if that competitor has a tendency to make off-centre calls regularly, and judge it simply in the context of that particular hand in isolation.

Also, my fellow Britain, cardsharp, made a valid point about the 2♣ psyche controversy, at least in UK. A hand similar to the one that started the thread came up in latter stages of national competition and aroused a lot of debate as to whether to strengthen the rules regarding a 'psyche' of a 2♣ opener (the person in question recently opened a 1NT with a 2 count and ended up making 1 trick (on a defensive error) hee hee... with opponents at other table in 6♠X -1 in a very reasonable contract: cost him the match) . Two nationally-recognised TDs who play at my club, and seem to have some sway in the corridors of power, cant agree on the matter so little chance of a resolution there !!!

The crux of the argument seems to be as to what constitutes a GF bid and whether it is possible to remove any subjective assessment as to whether one is or not, which in itself, of course, is ludricrous. A player may make a 2♣ GF bid genuinelyassessing it as GF, irrespective of his/her level, whereas another person may never think it is. The operative word here is genuine in the sense that a person makes a bid knowing it is in breach of any law put forward...


P.S. Misho i wish to disagree with you about Bulgaria being FREE!!! Bought a coffee in Sofia for 4.8 leva!!! : not FREE in my books. What was even more frustrating was that i had ordered a sandwich and a coke

[mishovnbg]

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Hi slothy!

"P.S. Misho i wish to disagree with you about Bulgaria being FREE!!! Bought a coffee in Sofia for 4.8 leva!!! : not FREE in my books. What was even more frustrating was that i had ordered a sandwich and a coke."

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I never mention nothing about money... Only about freedom, like in "wild, wild west" in the past . You paid so cheap for coffee, because was in Sofia . Come to Varna, resort "Golden sands", really great, fine sands, not deep waters, no sharks or any venomous creatures or plants... And probably will understand why I wrote that in Sofia is very cheap...

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Misho

[slothy]

mishovnbg, on Mar 22 2004, 10:44 AM, said:

Come to Varna, resort "Golden sands", really great, fine sands, not deep waters, no sharks or any venomous creatures or plants... And probably will understand why I wrote that in Sofia is very cheap...

Hmmmmmmm no sharks...

a few card-sharks i imagine ....

jajaja

[dogsbreath]

I dont care at all for 'experts' who lodge appeals on hands of this type. 4S was top so presumably 4S-1 was bottom .. would they appeal against their own top?
In my humble opinion this is as close to cheating as you can get .. trying to intimidate 'weaker' opponents when you get a poor result.
Rgds Dog

[Flame]

What phsyc about it ? if someone bid 2c with this its because he believe that this hand is good enough for 2c. I wouldnt bid 2c here but thats anouther story.

[Flame]

keylime, on Mar 17 2004, 03:36 PM, said:

There's a reason for this question I asked. About 10 days ago locally a friend of mine had this hand:

AKJTx AKxxx x xx

For fear of being passed (understand this person is an intermediate, still learning) opened 2♣. They ended up at 4♠ making for a top board. The opponents, who were both "experts" cried foul and wanted to appeal the board.

Don't know what came out of it, but with this and the B/I member giving nearly identical hands, started me thinking.

a mistake is not pysc and they can appeal as much as they want i would consider taking their money

[Fluffy]

I cannot count more than 4 losers on that hand, I supose that means I have 9 tricks.

Opening 2♣ with that hand is simply ridicoulous, as with any 2 suiter a lovelly rebid after 4/5 level bid comes back to you, what´s the problem of opening natural?.

Is it legal?, Know very little about rules, but if you expect to punnish players for playing badly even when getting a good result after it, nomal players will expect to find a better game to play.

Agree with Flame, did they appeal for opponents finding the best contract after what they consider a psich bid?, lol, say thanks and think of them while you spend their money with friends.

Only possible alternative is when the oppener´s are know for their suspicious methods (I mean people think they cheat) and may be considered experts.