[Apollo81]

I just remembered this one.

All red, IMPs

♠ Jxxxx
♥ Kxxx
♦ AKQx
♣ ---

1♣-1♠
3NT-??

(1) whats your bid opposite an adv/exp partner?

(2) does it make a difference if partner is b/i level (meaning he will have 6+♣ and a better hand than a 3♣ bid, but wouldn't consider any adv+ level rebidding like fake reverses, offshape natural NT bids, etc)

[han]

I would pass.

[kfay]

I want to make a move towards slam but it's unclear what the best way to do it is. It seems like if it's on then it's 6NT.

4NT.

[whereagles]

If pard is adv/exp, I will have agreed with him that this shows something like

x
Axx
xx
AKQxxxx

in which case the bid is 5♣.

If pard is a beginner, I'll have no clue what he has and will probably pass, hoping he can at least make it

[helene_t]

I thought it should show a 1336/1237/1327 or such with side suits guarded but he can just barely have such a hand. Maybe Q-AQ-Jxxx-AKQJxx. 6♦ makes opposite such a hand, and otherwise we probably make 6♣ if he has a solid 7-card.

I think I try a natural 4♦, planning to pass 4N or 5♣ but raising 5♦ to 6. Must admit I never discussed the follow-ups so I am on shallow ice but at least we will get an interesting post-mortem. Would probably pass if I considered it an important match or if I was unsure what 3N means, or if I specifically knew the clubs don't have to be solid.

[jdonn]

It's funny that I have never wanted to make any bid in this situation except pass, 4♣, or 4NT. I guess I should use the next cheapest bid as some ask about the solidity of partner's suit or something.

[han]

helene_t, on Apr 1 2008, 11:44 AM, said:

Maybe Q-AQ-Jxxx-AKQJxx.

I think partner should not bid 3NT when there is a perfectly normal reverse available. So I don't think partner will have 4 diamonds.

6D may still be excellent in the 4-3 though.

[whereagles]

jdonn, on Apr 1 2008, 04:44 PM, said:

I guess I should use the next cheapest bid as some ask about the solidity of partner's suit or something.

reading too much kenrexford lately?

[Fluffy]

This highly depends on partner's style.

Our best contrat is 4♣ sadly it is not playable, I think 5♣ will be our second best contract.

[han]

WOW

I thought my pass was conservative but Fluff wants to play in a partscore so what do I know.

It is very easy to come up with hands where 6C is laydown (partner with a stiff spade and really solid clubs) or where 5C goes down (Qx of spades and a club loser). Since I can't find out without risking a minus I will stick it out here in 3NT, which I expect to have very good play.

[mikeh]

In what some would call old-fashioned, and I would call good, bridge, this sequence cannot have happened.

Traditionally, this 3N showed running clubs (not always running opposite a void) and side stoppers... the expectation of 9 tricks with little help from responder other than his 4th or 5th round stopper in spades.

But our diamond holding tells us this is impossible (other than x A J10xx AKQxxxx)

I suspect I have a partner who doesn't know how to bid AQ AQx xx AQJxxx.

Even such a partner will be able to take 9 tricks opposite my hand, so I will let him.

BTW, I know that this traditional meaning is scorned by some experts.... exactly why that is remains a mystery to me

[skjaeran]

I'd call the TD, since we're playing with a deck with too many diamond honours. I can't hold this hand if partner jumps to 3NT - that's just not possible.

Totally agree with Mike, btw.

[jdonn]

I think if you are not rebidding 3NT with K AJ JTx AKQxxxx something is wrong with you

[han]

Yes Josh, I'd say that partner is very likely to have J10x of diamonds actually.

Not sure what the old people would bid with that hand, reverse in their diamond fragment to find out if there is a diamond stopper?

[mikeh]

han, on Apr 1 2008, 05:09 PM, said:

Yes Josh, I'd say that partner is very likely to have J10x of diamonds actually.

Not sure what the old people would bid with that hand, reverse in their diamond fragment to find out if there is a diamond stopper?

Ok, this almost senior citizen agrees that even he would take his life in his hands and rebid 3N with the hand Josh gave... but I'd do so knowing that it was a distortion.... one of those compromises one has to make when no bid fits your hand. But I wouldn't include this hand (which I think you would agree is a low-frequency hand) within the hands that partner should play me for.

[jdonn]

mikeh, on Apr 1 2008, 06:10 PM, said:

Ok, this almost senior citizen agrees that even he would take his life in his hands and rebid 3N with the hand Josh gave... but I'd do so knowing that it was a distortion.... one of those compromises one has to make when no bid fits your hand. But I wouldn't include this hand (which I think you would agree is a low-frequency hand) within the hands that partner should play me for.

Not sure what aspect you think is low frequency, but I would rebid 3NT on a lot sicker (to you) than that, and not feel like I was even out of line. But we have had this debate before and there are clearly two schools of thought, 'I will have the outside suits stopped, take it to the bank' and 'Too likely to steal a game on a solid suit and a prayer to pass this up.'

By the way, to question 2 in the original post. Wouldn't a beginner just have 18-19 balanced here?

[Apollo81]

jdonn, on Apr 1 2008, 07:19 PM, said:

By the way, to question 2 in the original post. Wouldn't a beginner just have 18-19 balanced here?

they'd rebid 2NT as normal, right?

[jdonn]

Apollo81, on Apr 2 2008, 10:31 AM, said:

jdonn, on Apr 1 2008, 07:19 PM, said:

By the way, to question 2 in the original post. Wouldn't a beginner just have 18-19 balanced here?

they'd rebid 2NT as normal, right?

Not the new players I've met. Or some bid 2NT with 18 and 3NT with 19 (not by agreements, just that's what they do.)

[oldman5757]

An adv/exp P will surely have AKQxxxx of clubs, maybe AKQJxxx, and a little outside, maybe the ♥ A but maybe only QJx, or Q10x, maybe a little something in ♠. P is clearly hoping you have the ♦'s stopped. Making 3NT could depend on whether P has the J of ♦ as a 2nd hand entry, or the J of ♣ so the suit will run with one entry.

There's a pretty good chance you'll go down in 3NT, but it's certainly not clear that moving will be be any better, and even if moving is better, it's not clear how to do it. Pass.

I'd expect a bi/int P to have a good 18-19 hcp, with something like Jxxx or J10x in ♦. Slam in ♦ is possible, but not likely. Pass.

[Apollo81]

The actual hand is pretty meaningless since it was in a B/I game. MikeH actually guessed opener's hand almost exactly right.