[microcap]

NEW YEAR'S SALE 2 for one...

LHO opens 1 ♦
, partner overcalls 1♠. RHO passes. You hold:

Scoring: IMP

---

What is your call if any?


Second hand:

LHO opens 1NT [15-17] Partner doubles, which is penalty oriented. RHO passes again, and you hold this lovely mess:

Scoring: IMP

---

What is your call if any?

Happy new year to all BBO Forum regulars!

[Walddk]

1. 2♣ whether it's forcing or not.
2. 2♠. I don't have quite enough to sit for it. Add any queen and I would.

Roland

[ArtK78]

Agree with Roland. I will be surprised if there are many who disagree with either action.

[pclayton]

Same here, although on #2 if I have to play penalty doubles of 1N openings, I always play our NT system on. So I would transfer to spades here.

[Walddk]

pclayton, on Jan 3 2008, 08:31 PM, said:

Same here, although on #2 if I have to play penalty doubles of 1N openings, I always play our NT system on. So I would transfer to spades here.

I don't like that. I assume that 2♣ would be Stayman and 2♦/♥ transfers? I want to sign off in a minor if that is my long suit with a very weak hand. Moreover, a penalty double of 1NT does not necessarily show a balanced hand, so I can't see why the system should be on.

Roland

[cjames]

Walddk, on Jan 3 2008, 01:18 PM, said:

1. 2♣ whether it's forcing or not.
2. 2♠. I don't have quite enough to sit for it. Add any queen and I would.

Roland

I agree with Roland.

[Apollo81]

1. 2♣ whether it's forcing or not
2. I'd sit for it

[jdonn]

Walddk, on Jan 3 2008, 01:51 PM, said:

pclayton, on Jan 3 2008, 08:31 PM, said:

Same here, although on #2 if I have to play penalty doubles of 1N openings, I always play our NT system on. So I would transfer to spades here.

I don't like that. I assume that 2♣ would be Stayman and 2♦/♥ transfers? I want to sign off in a minor if that is my long suit with a very weak hand. Moreover, a penalty double of 1NT does not necessarily show a balanced hand, so I can't see why the system should be on.

Roland

It's very common to play redouble runs to play in a minor. I like system on too, might as well have opener play it and sometimes you still want stayman.

Anyway on the second I would go to the major of course. And 2♣ on the first. Both seem rather obvious.

[Walddk]

jdonn, on Jan 3 2008, 09:14 PM, said:

It's very common to play redouble runs to play in a minor.

Excuse me, but how do you redouble over your partner's double? (although I agree that you sometimes would like to)

On a serious note, I find it wrong that you must sign off at the 3-level with a hand like

Jx
xx
xxx
Jxxxxx

if 2♣ is Stayman. The same goes for

Jx
xx
Jxxxxx
xxx

if 2♦ is a transfer. Partner did not open 1NT, so now we have more options in the sign-off department.

Roland

[ArtK78]

There are a number of times that I would like to turn the cube to 8.

[mikeh]

On the 1st one, 2♣ seems clear. I happen to prefer this to be a one-round force, but, on this hand, I don't care

On the second, it depends on the meaning of the 'penalty double'.

I rarely play penalty doubles of strong 1N openers, but back when I did, one of my pet peeves was that partner pulled when I had 1N set in my own hand. xx KQJ10xx Ax Axx, I really DON'T want to double and hear partner bid 2♠, while if my double showed a balanced 16 or so, I do.

Since the balanced strong hand is both the traditional meaning of double and (I think) the more common holding, I pull to 2♠ on hand 2, and I agree with Roland that system on makes relatively little sense.

Half the time, my 5 or 6 card runout suit will be a minor (actually, when you hold bad cards like I do, it seems to happen about 53.863% of the time), and why should my choices be to get killed at the 3-level or defend a cold 1N?

And, after all, on these auctions, there is usually little if any advantage to 'right-siding' the contract: we all know where the hcp are and they ain't on my right

[keylime]

Ditto the above.

[awm]

While I don't usually play penalty doubles of strong notrumps, I have played a lot of penalty doubles of weak notrumps. In this case the doubler usually has a balanced 16 or equivalent distributional hand.

I agree with Roland that playing "systems on" is a bad idea. The notrump systems most people play are optimized to look for game contracts, find your major suit fits, etc. They are not particularly good for running to the best two-level partial. And of course in this auction doubler doesn't even have to hold a balanced hand.

My preferred method over (1NT)-X-(P), assuming pass is not forcing:

Pass = happy to defend 1NTX, promises a few values (typically 5+ hcp)
2♣ = Running, either clubs or any weak hand without a five-card suit
2X = at least a 5-card suit in a weak hand
2NT = any good 5-5 hand, generally preferring to bid game rather than defend
3X = natural, good six-card suit without much else

[Walddk]

mikeh, on Jan 3 2008, 09:28 PM, said:

xx KQJ10xx Ax Axx, I really DON'T want to double and hear partner bid 2♠, while if my double showed a balanced 16 or so, I do.

Exactly right, and that's why advancer should only pull with a hand totally useless on defence. With one exception: no 5-card suit and a bust.

xxx
xxxx
xxx
xxx

and I pass "happily" (at least until someone redoubles)

Roland

[pclayton]

Walddk, on Jan 3 2008, 10:51 AM, said:

pclayton, on Jan 3 2008, 08:31 PM, said:

Same here, although on #2 if I have to play penalty doubles of 1N openings, I always play our NT system on. So I would transfer to spades here.

I don't like that. I assume that 2♣ would be Stayman and 2♦/♥ transfers? I want to sign off in a minor if that is my long suit with a very weak hand. Moreover, a penalty double of 1NT does not necessarily show a balanced hand, so I can't see why the system should be on.

Roland

Getting out in 2 of a minor is a problem. You must play at the 3 level.

2C is really 'scrambling', not stayman. It operates like Baron. If 2 of a minor for you is natural, how do you run from 1N x'd without a 5 card suit?

In exchange for this, we get to let the doubler play the hand.

This scheme works the best when RHO's pass forces a redouble. I can still run to 2 minor if I pass and then pass after RHO converts.

[Walddk]

pclayton, on Jan 3 2008, 09:37 PM, said:

2C is really 'scrambling', not stayman. It operates like Baron. If 2 of a minor for you is natural, how do you run from 1N x'd without a 5 card suit?

I don't, I pass (read above). If pass is conventional forcing a redouble and that comes back to me I have time to run as pointed out by MikeH.

Roland

[PassedOut]

#1) 2♣
#2) Pass. The double shows a good hand and a good lead, imo.

[655321]

Walddk, on Jan 3 2008, 01:18 PM, said:

1. 2♣ whether it's forcing or not.
2. 2♠. I don't have quite enough to sit for it. Add any queen and I would.

Roland

What Roland said.

[microcap]

Thanks for the input so far---

on hand one, I bid 2♣ as well as most of you. Rex held

Scoring: IMP

---

He passed my 2 ♣, which I got lucky and made. But certainly ♥,♠, and NT are better spots. Comments?

On hand 2 I bid 2 ♠ like most of you. It didn't even occur to me to pass with that garbage.

Regardless of Rex's actual hand, and assuming you play double over 1NT as penalty "oriented", help me out. I tend to assume the double is balanced 15-18, and Rex always has a mostly one suited hand with an entry or 2. It has been my experience that using double for both types is a losing proposition. Comments?

[mike777]

microcap, on Jan 3 2008, 04:54 PM, said:

Thanks for the input so far---

on hand one, I bid 2♣ as well as most of you.  Rex held <!-- ONEHAND begin --><table border='1'> <tr> <td> <table> <tr> <td> Dealer: </td> <td> West </td> </tr> <tr> <td> Vul: </td> <td> Both </td> </tr> <tr> <td> Scoring: </td> <td> IMP </td> </tr> </table> </td> <td> <table> <tr> <th> <span class='spades'> ♠ </span> </th> <td> J10987 </td> </tr> <tr> <th> <span class='hearts'> ♥ </span> </th> <td> Q105 </td> </tr> <tr> <th> <span class='diamonds'> ♦ </span> </th> <td> AK43 </td> </tr> <tr> <th> <span class='clubs'> ♣ </span> </th> <td> 5 </td> </tr> </table> </td> <td>  </td> </tr> </table><!-- ONEHAND end -->

He passed my 2 ♣, which I got lucky and made.  But certainly ♥,♠, and NT are better spots.   Comments?

On hand 2 I bid 2 ♠ like most of you.   It didn't even occur to me to pass with that garbage.

Regardless of Rex's actual hand, and assuming you play double over 1NT as penalty "oriented", help me out.   I tend to assume the double is balanced 15-18, and Rex always has a mostly one suited hand with an entry or 2.   It has been my experience that using double for both types is a losing proposition.   Comments?

1s vul?

I guess it depends on your style. Here you have a bad hand (less than opener) and a bad suit. In fact almost all your hcp are outside your bid suit.

All of this in front of an unpassed partner.