[Elianna]

I was completely apalled, and was curious how other people felt.

I'm still upset that Rove and that other guy who ADMITTED to giving Novak the name weren't even indicted.

[mike777]

Elianna, on Jul 2 2007, 10:39 PM, said:

I was completely apalled, and was curious how other people felt.

I'm still upset that Rove and that other guy who ADMITTED to giving Novak the name weren't even indicted.

Great lesson, always tell the truth when the government knocks on your door.
Lie or say you do not remember enough times....you get to go to jail and have bubba as your new boyfriend. Please submit.

Step one enter public service
Step two make policy decisions and make enemies
Step three, bend over grab ankles.

[skjaeran]

Seems like a pretty ridiculous action, so just what you'd expect...

[pbleighton]

Apalling, not surprising.

Quote

Step one enter public service
Step two make policy decisions and make enemies
Step three, bend over grab ankles.

You forgot step 2.5, lie multiple times under oath.

It also doesn't apply to Scooter Libby.

Petre

[hrothgar]

If I had any respect what so ever for Bush, I'd probably find the decision to pardon Libby somewhat surprising.

After all, Bush holds the record for the least number of pardons ever granted as Governor. The smirking little chimp publicly mocked a woman that was executed under his watch. One might think that a rock-ribbed, law and order member of the political establishment would stand by the court's decision.

However, the whole Bush administration has always considered themselves completely above the law. This incident was regrettable, but completely predictable. It will be interesting to see just how many pardons Bush grants to administration officials prior to his leaving office.

I, for one, welcome the thought of Bush issuing blanket pardons to Cheney. It will make it ever so much easier to hand Cheney over to the ICC or maybe even the Iraqi's to be tried for war crimes...

[pbleighton]

Quote

I, for one, welcome the thought of Bush issuing blanket pardons to Cheney. It will make it ever so much easier to hand Cheney over to the ICC or maybe even the Iraqi's to be tried for war crimes...

LOL. What have you been smoking?

A nice daydream, though.

Peter

[keylime]

I think the commutation of Libby's sentence was a moderate choice to make. It'll be interesting to see how the remainder of the appeals come down.

This was frankly nearly trivial compared to Clinton's pardons before leaving.

[hrothgar]

keylime, on Jul 3 2007, 06:59 PM, said:

I think the commutation of Libby's sentence was a moderate choice to make. It'll be interesting to see how the remainder of the appeals come down.

This was frankly nearly trivial compared to Clinton's pardons before leaving.

I very much agree that many of Clinton's pardons were scandalous. In particular, I think that the Mark Rich pardon was a load of crap and a disgrace. Its part of the reason that I'm not supporting Hillary during the primaries.

However, in no way shape or form, does this excuse Bush's behavior. Indeed, I seem to recall that Bush ran on a platform that claimed he would be different sort of President.

Here's an interesting quote from The Nation

http://www.thenation...ames?pid=210002

Quote

Libby had become a symbol of the Bush White House's problem with the truth. After all, his lies had been designed to block FBI agents and federal prosecutors from learning the full truth of a White House effort to discredit a critic who had accused the Bush administration of twisting the prewar intelligence. And now the final act in the long-running CIA leak scandal--Bush's commutation--stands as another symbol of this grand theme: lying doesn't really bother this crowd. In the 2000 presidential campaign, Bush claimed he would bring responsibility to the White House and, as a PR stunt, he dubbed his campaign jet Accountability One. Yet with this commutation, he takes the position that in his administration an aide who purposefully misleads government officials investigating a possible national security crime need not be held fully accountable.

[Al_U_Card]

Let's see....they execute mentally handicapped murderers in Texas.

Dick Cheney was the source of the problem and Scooter undoubtedly was being "loyal".

Loyalty has superceded intelligence and competence and integrity and honesty in this administration.

When the martial law order is decreed, how will you people react? It is coming, so get ready......will you be loyal to your president and his NWO gang of miscreants or will you be (see above for what no longer exists in those parts...)

The only power that they have is the power that you give to them.

[luke warm]

i expected it, i also expect a pardon... and i agree with richard that it's illogical to exonerate bush's actions by pointing to clinton's admittedly scandalous pardons... both are poor examples of leaders and both have left the white house worse than they found it

[Winstonm]

Quote

Sen. Joe Biden:

Tony Snow said that President Bush decided to commute Scooter Libby’s two and a half year-prison sentence for perjury and obstruction of justice, because it was “excessive.”

Yet last year the Bush Administration filed a “friend-of-the-court brief” with the Supreme Court, in an attempt to uphold a lower court’s ruling that a 33-month prison sentence for Victor Rita, who was convicted of the same exact charges, perjury and obstruction of justice, was “reasonable.”

Victor Rita served 24 years in the Marine Corps, had tours of duty in Vietnam and the first Gulf war, and has received over 35 military metals and awards. Also, he is an elderly gentleman who suffers serious health problems.

[P_Marlowe]

Winstonm, on Jul 5 2007, 10:44 PM, said:

Quote

Sen. Joe Biden:

Tony Snow said that President Bush decided to commute Scooter Libby’s two and a half year-prison sentence for perjury and obstruction of justice, because it was “excessive.”

Yet last year the Bush Administration filed a “friend-of-the-court brief” with the Supreme Court, in an attempt to uphold a lower court’s ruling that a 33-month prison sentence for Victor Rita, who was convicted of the same exact charges, perjury and obstruction of justice, was “reasonable.”

Victor Rita served 24 years in the Marine Corps, had tours of duty in Vietnam and the first Gulf war, and has received over 35 military metals and awards. Also, he is an elderly gentleman who suffers serious health problems.

Hi,

I also thaught, that Snows comment stated, that
"perjury and obstructionof justice" should now be
legalized in the US, or at most you get 1-2 days in
prison.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[Al_U_Card]

Loyalty is one letter removed from Royalty which is what we appear to be dealing with here.....noblesse oblige.

Your country was founded on denying the divine right of kings......when did you go astray?

[rbforster]

luke warm, on Jul 3 2007, 03:40 PM, said:

i also expect a pardon...

You must not exactly understand the requirements for a pardon then. Commuting his sentence if a very carefully chosen strategy to prevent further disclosure of the embarrassing and possibly treasonous actions taken by higher ups in the Bush administration. You see if Libby was pardoned, he would have to show some remorse but most important admit to his misdeeds which would mean correcting his lies under oath. By commuting his sentence, Libby avoid jail, gets off with a fine (no doubt paid by his appreciative friends contributing to his defense fund) and, while guilty, is able to continue to plead the 5th with regard to any further inquiry into his false testimony. He might be pardoned later when the next elections are over, but I think his silence will continue to be important to those in power and so this may be unlikely.

George Bush on Sept 30 2003 said:

And if there is a leak out of my administration, I want to know who it is. And if the person has violated law, the person will be taken care of.

At least we can agree he is a man of his word. The responsible person has been (well) taken care of.

Factoid of the day - Libby was Marc Rich's lawyer. Anyone want to take odds on whether Libby gets a pardon before the end of this administration?

[BebopKid]

Libby is a scum bag.

The sentence for Libby's crime, however, was cruel and unusual.

The judge made a political decision with the sentence. That judge should be disbarred.

[pbleighton]

Quote

The sentence for Libby's crime, however, was cruel and unusual.

The judge made a political decision with the sentence. That judge should be disbarred.

What basis do you have for this? Libby was convicted of obstruction of justice, a serious felony. His sentence was within normal guidelines.

Peter

[hrothgar]

BebopKid, on Jul 7 2007, 04:35 AM, said:

The judge made a political decision with the sentence. That judge should be disbarred.

I'm going to attach a long quote from Talking Point Memo's where Josh Marshall address this point much better that I ever could...

Quote

The case had profound political overtones. And certainly there are no end of people in the country who became deeply invested in this case who normally wouldn't get overly bent out of shape about a run-of-the-mill perjury and obstruction case -- which, at least narrowly speaking, this is.

But Libby never found his fate in one of those people's hands. Not once. There's just no getting around that point.

Go down the list.

1. Attorney General John Ashcroft. Decided a special prosecutor was needed and then recused himself from the decision because of his proximity to the probable targets of the investigation.

2. James Comey. Yes, he's the darling of the Dems now because he spilled the beans about the hospital stand-off. But Comey is, dare we say it, a REPUBLICAN. And not just any Republican but a pretty tough law-and-order type who only months earlier had been appointed Deputy Attorney General by President Bush. He had it in for Scooter? He let his partisanship get in the way?

3. Patrick Fitzgerald. Again, a darling of the Dems now for obvious reasons. But anyone who knows the guy's history knows that while this registered independent may not lean ideologically right (in the way movement whacks might recognize) he certainly doesn't lean to the left. It's no accident that his appointments have come under Republicans.

4. Judge Reggie Walton. Let's start with this: He was appointed by George W. Bush. And if that doesn't do it for you, he was appointed to previous judicial appointments by Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush.

A mere calling of the roll like this puts into a razor-sharp relief just how silly these claims are. At every step in the process Libby's fate was in the hands of someone who was either himself a staunch Republican or had been repeatedly appointed by staunch Republicans. The only thing is that no one ever passed him off into the hands a Bush loyalist. And that's the key. Alberto Gonzales never got the hand-off. Whatever else you can claim about this case, it's about as clear as it can be that partisan politics played no role in Libby's fate.

Now, one other point on a somewhat related matter. In a strange sort of way Rich Lowry and I now appear to agree that President Bush's commutation is without any rationale whatsoever. Needless to say, he now says it should have been a full pardon. But we're on the same wavelength to the degree that we agree that the commutation makes no sense.

As I wrote just after the news broke, there would at least be a logic, though I think a very poor one, for a pardon. You just say, it's all about politics. The whole case is illegitimate. And I the president am exercising my constitutional power to wipe the judicial slate clean. Period. I think it's a bogus argument. But it is not an illogical argument.

But President Bush says the prosecution, the prosecutor, the judge and the juries verdict are all legitimate. He doesn't second guess any of them. He just thinks Libby shouldn't go to jail, even though that's the normal punishment for the crime. There's no way of understanding this other than to conclude either that the president simply likes Scooter Libby and -- as many of us would -- doesn't want to see him have to go to prison or that Libby could provide testimony incriminating people in the White House, including the president, and that that is a risk President Bush is not willing to take.

Wipe all the chatter away and there's only one argument for what happened here.

He's our guy; we've got the power; so go ***** yourself.

That's the argument.

[luke warm]

Rob F, on Jul 6 2007, 08:16 PM, said:

luke warm, on Jul 3 2007, 03:40 PM, said:

i also expect a pardon...

You must not exactly understand the requirements for a pardon then. Commuting his sentence if a very carefully chosen strategy to prevent further disclosure of the embarrassing and possibly treasonous actions taken by higher ups in the Bush administration. You see if Libby was pardoned, he would have to show some remorse but most important admit to his misdeeds which would mean correcting his lies under oath. ~~

i don't know why you say that, but you are obviously wrong as to the requirements of a full pardon... you are in effect saying that a man wrongly convicted can not be granted a pardon... libby can be pardoned and i think he will be, although opinions on that vary

[Gerben42]

Quote

In particular, I think that the Mark Rich pardon was a load of crap and a disgrace. Its part of the reason that I'm not supporting Hillary during the primaries.

Silly foreigner question: I thought you only get to vote completely at the end, in November 2008.

Point 1: Not supporting Mrs. Clinton because her husband did something you disagree with sounds like a strange reason.

Point 2: Creating a position where the US president can pardon someone without any consequences (like in the Clinton case, after all he was just quitting) sounds like a situation open for abuse. Idea for a law change there, like no pardons in the last 6 months of office?

[hrothgar]

luke warm, on Jul 7 2007, 04:27 PM, said:

Rob F, on Jul 6 2007, 08:16 PM, said:

luke warm, on Jul 3 2007, 03:40 PM, said:

i also expect a pardon...

You must not exactly understand the requirements for a pardon then. Commuting his sentence if a very carefully chosen strategy to prevent further disclosure of the embarrassing and possibly treasonous actions taken by higher ups in the Bush administration. You see if Libby was pardoned, he would have to show some remorse but most important admit to his misdeeds which would mean correcting his lies under oath. ~~

i don't know why you say that, but you are obviously wrong as to the requirements of a full pardon... you are in effect saying that a man wrongly convicted can not be granted a pardon... libby can be pardoned and i think he will be, although opinions on that vary

Actually, Rob's comments are right on the money...

The following article provides a good summary regarding the Justice Departments procedures for granting pardons.

http://writ.news.fin...s/20070705.html