[Mike_P]

Just got a Treo 700p smartphone (Palm OS) and love it. Can do absolutely everything on it (phone, surf the web, email, mp3 player, take pictures, show photo's, watch movies, e-books, audio books, podcasts, streaming video's, play reasonably entertaining bridge and other games, etc., etc., etc.) and can take it with me everywhere.

What I can't do is access BBO, either for online play or to access my paid content.

I hope some thought has been given to accommodating this user class which is, by the way, taking over the world!

It's not like there's an insufficient user base.

-- Mike

[hrothgar]

A close friend of mine owns a company that produces and publishes games for small form factor devices like cell phones and PDAs. We (briefly) considered doing a port of of the BBO client. However, we abandoned this as a bad idea. From our perspective, there's a number of significant problems with the idea:

1. I don't believe that the usage patterns for cell phone games is a good match for BBO. People normally play a game on a cell phone for 2-3 minutes while they're killing time waiting for a bus. This really doesn't match well for a game like bridge where you'll (hopefully) play a number of boards with the same partner.

2. There isn't enough screen real estate on a Treo to support the BBO client. Messaging is also a pain in the butt. Do you really expect my grandmother to understand 13375p34k

3. The demographics aren't a good fit. There are LOTs of cell phones in the world. There's a decent number of bridge players. The number of bridge players who play games (ANY games) on devices like cell phones is very small. Most bridge players are old. Most cell phone games are young. And nary the twain shall meet.

We did give serious consideration to porting "Bridge Master" over to portable devices. The usage pattern seemed like a better fit and the client was a lot simpler. We decided to go with a Counting trainer for Blackjack instead.

[mgoetze]

hrothgar, on May 13 2007, 02:11 PM, said:

1. I don't believe that the usage patterns for cell phone games is a good match for BBO. People normally play a game on a cell phone for 2-3 minutes while they're killing time waiting for a bus.

Sounds just like what people do in the Main Bridge Club all the time...


Seriously though, I think a Mac and/or Linux port would be much more worthwhile.

[Mike_P]

hrothgar, on May 13 2007, 09:11 AM, said:

A close friend of mine owns a company that produces and publishes games for small form factor devices like cell phones and PDAs.  We (briefly) considered doing a port of of the BBO client.  However, we abandoned this as a bad idea.  From our perspective, there's a number of significant problems with the idea:

1. I don't believe that the usage patterns for cell phone games is a good match for BBO.  People normally play a game on a cell phone for 2-3 minutes while they're killing time waiting for a bus.  This really doesn't match well for a game like bridge where you'll (hopefully) play a number of boards with the same partner.

2.  There isn't enough screen real estate on a Treo to support the BBO client.  Messaging is also a pain in the butt.  Do you really expect my grandmother to understand 13375p34k

3.  The demographics aren't a good fit.  There are LOTs of cell phones in the world.  There's a decent number of bridge players.  The number of bridge players who play games (ANY games) on devices like cell phones is very small.  Most bridge players are old.  Most cell phone games are young.  And nary the twain shall meet.

We did give serious consideration to porting "Bridge Master" over to portable devices.  The usage pattern seemed like a better fit and the client was a lot simpler.  We decided to go with a Counting trainer for Blackjack instead.

With respect to #1:

I tend to agree although there's a good deal of pretty short sessions going on in BBO as it is, I think. Also, online play isn't even the strongest application here. What is much more appropriate for handhelds (and what I'd give my right arm for) is the ability to do things like kibitz, follow live lessons, watch live vugraphs and archives, access online content, use the rich library of free (LTPB for ex.) and for-fee offline content with a handheld application that is a Palm version of the Bridgebase display engine, etc.

With respect to #2:

Oh, I don't know, it's amazing what a little creativity can do. Have you seen the latest Omar Sharif Bridge for the Palm? The display and UI is really quite adequate, almost elegant. As for your grandmother, I'm sure she is a nice lady (don't forget to wish her a great mother's day!) but she is NOT the future of the game.

With respect to #3:

I get your point. However, I must say that as long as the bridge community shares a general view that there's no room for technology or innovation because the old bridge players will never use it, the game will continue to decline.

[hotShot]

Well I think if there were a bridge game 4 cell phones and the like, it could be a way to get "younger" people interested in bridge.

[pclayton]

I have a Motorola Q. I'd love a portable BBO, and I'd even pay for it

If the interface was optimized, I think BBO could work. There's a lot of wasted area in the standard version; you really don't need to see the backs of 3 cards during the bidding (or 2 during the play). During the bidding, all you need is your hand and the bidding, and during the play, all you need is your hand and the dummy's.

Chat can be one or two lines max. Bidding can be input by the user (versus mouse driven).

Even if I didn't play, I'd use it to kib while waiting for food at a restaurant, sitting on a train, in business meetings ( ), etc.. The kib function would have to be limited to watching one hand.

[mrdct]

Space is not an issue. There are several bridge games available for hand-held devices, such as Omar Sharif Bridge. Sheenshots: http://tinyurl.com/2a6e8k

Some work might need to be done to squeeze a line or two of chat it, but it doesn't look that hard.

I think the real problem is going to be the size of the market.

[Mike_P]

mrdct, on May 13 2007, 05:35 PM, said:

I think the real problem is going to be the size of the market.

Which is true of course for everything bridge related.

It's interesting. Getting this thing a week or so ago has awakened my inner geek and I find myself exploring the zillion sites that cater to this phenomenon. There you'll find -- primarily young people, both male and female -- outfitting their Blackberrys/Smartphones/PDA's with all the latest doodads such as utilities and skins and games, etc., etc. There is an enormous amount of online chatter about what's the latest widget, coolest game, most useful utility, etc. There is considerable interest in multiplayer online gaming with handhelds, and there are still relatively few titles available.

The point is -- there are tens if not hundreds of thousands of primarily young professionals sifting through the downloadable software sites every day looking for nifty applications. I think a BridgeBase-like application appearing on those download sites would provide more visibility to the game in a week than it gets nowadays in a decade.

-- Mike

[mike777]

I think most of you are missing the main point.
If there is money to be made with bridge on some/any format..do it.
If there is too much money to be lost...do not do it.

Of course in a very short time bbo will be online anywhere and anyway, the issue is how soon.

Send check if you want it sooner rather than later.

[Mike_P]

So true......

Depending, of course, on whether you approach it as an existing market to be exploited or a potential market to be developed.

[helene_t]

hrothgar, on May 13 2007, 03:11 PM, said:

People normally play a game on a cell phone for 2-3 minutes while they're killing time waiting for a bus.  This really doesn't match well for a game like bridge where you'll (hopefully) play a number of boards with the same partner.

But if I carry my smartphone all the time, why shouldn't I use it to kill two hours of time, rather than two minutes? Except that the only games available are those you don't want to play for more than two minutes, and that I cary my laptop also because there isn't enough software for the smartphone? I might find myself sitting in a train or bus, or waiting for a train or flight connection. Or sitting in a hotel room waiting for my travelmate to wake up. Or just sitting on the beach doing nothing.

Minor practical point: the BBO protocol is not an open protocol. So someone has to convince Fred and Uday to participate in the project.