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Hurd-Bathurst Puppet Stayman

#1 User is offline   nullve 

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Posted 2021-May-28, 07:26

From #35121 Teams TBL3 - ALT NEWCO EVENT 5 - R5 :


Seen this Puppet variation before?
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#2 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2021-May-28, 07:33

So what's 2N-3-3 ?
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#3 User is offline   awm 

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Posted 2021-May-28, 07:41

Looks like a flipped version of Romex stayman; in the original Romex:

3 = 2-3 and 2-4
3 = 4-5 and 2-3
3 = 5 and 2-3
3NT = 4 and 4

Over the 3 bid, 3 asks for a fifth heart (then 3NT denies the fifth heart). Over the 3 bid, 3 asks about spades (shows 4+) and one of 3/3NT shows five hearts + four spades with the other showing a desire to play 3NT.

In the flipped version, maybe:

3 = 2-3 and either 2-3 or 5
3 = 4-5 and 2-3
3 = 4 and 2-3
3NT = 4 and 4

With maybe similar follow-ups?
Adam W. Meyerson
a.k.a. Appeal Without Merit
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#4 User is offline   nullve 

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Posted 2021-May-28, 08:21

Found another board, from #77761 Teams WBT OCBL May CUP R7 T1 :


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#5 User is offline   mw64ahw 

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Posted 2021-May-28, 09:10

Looks fairly basic to me

3 I donít have a 5 card major
3 I have 4 not sure why they donít right side

I go straight to 3NT to show 23 after 3
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#6 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2021-May-28, 09:53

View Postmw64ahw, on 2021-May-28, 09:10, said:

Looks fairly basic to me

3 I donít have a 5 card major
3 I have 4 not sure why they donít right side

I go straight to 3NT to show 23 after 3


then you're not actually reading the descriptions, 3 can have 5 spades
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#7 User is offline   mw64ahw 

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Posted 2021-May-28, 10:03

View PostCyberyeti, on 2021-May-28, 09:53, said:

then you're not actually reading the descriptions, 3 can have 5 spades

Nope not seen that-not in the first post?
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#8 User is offline   pescetom 

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Posted 2021-May-28, 12:58

View Postmw64ahw, on 2021-May-28, 10:03, said:

Nope not seen that-not in the first post?


The bid explanation says "5 or no major".
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#9 User is offline   nullve 

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Posted 2021-May-28, 14:42

Hurd-Wooldridge this time.

See board 14 and comments by Al Hollander here.
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#10 User is offline   johnu 

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Posted 2021-May-28, 14:53

I play a modified puppet like that.

Responses to 3

3 - 5 spades or no 4 card major
3 - 4 hearts
3 - 4 spades
3NT - 5 hearts

After a 3 response



3 is an asking bid, 3 shows 5 spades, 3NT denies 5 spades



3 shows a Smolen type hand, 4 spades and 5 hearts



3NT shows a Smolen type hand, 5 spades and 4 hearts
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#11 User is offline   mikeh 

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Posted 2021-May-29, 00:10

Iíve played what I think is this method with one partner, with whom I played often for the first ten years, for 20 years now.

2N. 3C

3D denies a 4C M, but may have 5 spades
3H is a 4 card suit, doesnít deny 4S
3S is a 4 card suit, denies 4 hearts
3N is a 5 card heart suit. Responder can transfer to hearts if he wants to play there or seek a slam with a heart fit.

Over 2N 3C 3D

Responder usually relays with 3H, over which 3S shows 5 spades and 3N denies either major

The exception to the relay is when responder holds a smolen response hand....5=4 either way in the majors.

Now instead of 3H, he bids 3S with 4 spades and longer hearts (so opener declares a heart contract) or 3N with 4 hearts and longer spades. This is an easy forget...and often costly

Over 2N 3C 3H, responder bids 3S without 4 spades and 3N with 4spades and no slam interest (since 3N may end the auction). With slam interest, and no suit to bid, 4N and 5N show the same hand but with appropriate added strength.

I learned this from Doug Fraser, one of Canadaís all time experts.
'one of the great markers of the advance of human kindness is the howls you will hear from the Men of God' Johann Hari
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#12 User is offline   nullve 

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Posted 2021-May-29, 04:53

From https://groups.googl...e/c/QLHRefwj87w :

Chuck Arthur said:

One of my occasional partners brought this scheme from out of town. I
like it, and have a few of my partners playing it now. It addresses
many of the objections to standard Puppet Stayman. It makes such
sense, I have a hard time believing that it original, but I have not
read about it in literature, nor have not found anybody who can attest
authoritatively to its origins. Has anybody else tripped over this
one?

Can anybody suggest a proper attribution for this variant of Puppet
Stayman over 2 NT openings (or rebid after opening strong 2 clubs)?

Here is the essense.

3 clubs by responder asks for 4 and 5 card majors.

Responding 3 of a major directly shows 4 exactly.

Responding 3 diamonds denies a 4 card major, but opener might hold 5
spades.

3 NT shows 5 hearts (original responder may use 4 diamonds to transfer
to hearts)

After a 3 diamond response by opener, the original responder generally
goes through 3 hearts to ask about a 5 card spade suit, even if not
interested.

After a 3 diamond response by opener, a non 3 heart bid at the 3 level
is a Smolen like bid. 3 spades shows 4 spades and 5 or more hearts; 3
NT shows 4 hearts and 5 spades.

I have written this thing up under MS Word. Eric Kokish has added his
wise thoughts, fluffing it out somewhat in the areas of some related
sequences. If anybody is interested, let me know by private email, and
I will share this.

Chuck Arthur
Toronto, Canada


b...@moscito.org said:

In article <cvpc7usm69nu8fo45...@4ax.com>,
Chuck Arthur <chuck-...@rogers.com> wrote:
>One of my occasional partners brought this scheme from out of

>town. [...] Can anybody suggest a proper attribution for this
>variant of Puppet Stayman over 2 NT openings (or rebid after 2C)

This general scheme (often credited to M. Sklar circa 1970)

2N-3C; Ask for majors
3D No major, or 5 spades
-3H do you have 5 spades
-3S shows 5-4 or 4-5 in the majors.
-3N can be the other 54 majors, less than slammish if you want.
3H exactly 4 hearts, possibly also 4 spades
-3S do you have 4 spades
3S 4 spades, not 4 hearts
3N 5 hearts, responder may transfer with 4D

is the one written up by Marshall Miles in "Bridge from the Top", what
I consider an indispensable introductory book to bidding theory. OTOH,
I urge you to adopt Romex, mentioned by others here:

2N-3C; Ask for majors
3D No major, or 4 spades
-3H do you have 4 spades
-3S shows 5-4 in the majors
-3N can be 4-5 in the majors, less than slammish if you want
3H 4 hearts, maybe 5; not 4 spades
-3S do you have an extra heart?
3S 5 spades.
3N 4-4 in the majors, responder may transfer with 4D or 4H

Compare the two structures carefully, and I think you will agree that
Romex is better. I leave the reason as an exercise to the reader. :P

--
If you worked it out, you might actually learn something in the process :P

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Posted 2021-May-29, 05:09

BBO thread from 2005:

https://www.bridgeba...wolpert-system/
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